[Polpolion]

I didn't think it would. But still, it could take on a sobek, a moloch, and some other ships too.

In fact, it just killed a Ravanna, a lilith, and a moloch, and 4 fighter wings all at the same time in just 4:25 with 49%hull integrity. I'll match it up with the collie. hehe. im goin' crazy.

[Mars]

And I thought I was tired.

So any other comments.

[StratComm]

*Sigh*
Are you saying that all cap-ship battles should take place at maximum distance with both ships facing each other? If so , that would give an unfair advantage to offensive designs like the Rakshasa and Ravana, granted: war is not fair, but if all battles proceed the same way, that would suggest extremely poor strategy on the COs part. If not, what exactly are you saying, (plain as possible please, I'm as tired as hell)

What Kara's saying is that just leaving capships to circle each other in accordance with their own (lack of) AI is lazy FREDing, but your alternative of having them sit there is lazy FREDing too.  Both involve plopping down the ships, beam freeing them, and sitting back to watch.  A good FREDed battle will use waypoints and scripting to determine where the ships are in relation to one another at all times rather than relying on them to figure it out.  A Deimos, for example, would probably function best if it is allowed to close to point-blank range where its slashers stand a higher chance of staying on target through more of their firing cycle.  Plus, get it in close and its myriad flak batteries and Pirhana launchers will do substantial damage to its target.  So it would be scripted to get in close and try to stay broadside.  A Moloch would do better at range where it's not suceptable to those attacks, and so would try to plot a course parallel to its target at a more optimal range and would be scripted as such.  That's good FREDing, and makes for more interesting missions.

[Mars]

Makes sense. And both corvettes are the same as far as speed and maneuverability.

[karajorma]

*Sigh*
Are you saying that all cap-ship battles should take place at maximum distance with both ships facing each other? If so , that would give an unfair advantage to offensive designs like the Rakshasa and Ravana, granted: war is not fair, but if all battles proceed the same way, that would suggest extremely poor strategy on the COs part. If not, what exactly are you saying, (plain as possible please, I'm as tired as hell)

I'm saying that if you've simply given both ships orders to attack each other you've set up the mission wrong. For the reasons you state the Moloch is actually better served in such a battle if it simply sits there and lets the Deimos come to it. So why on Earth would it move towards the Deimos and sacrifice the one advantage it has over it?

Capships battles should be scripted with both ships following waypoints in order to manouver themselves into the optimum position against the enemy. The ai-chase/attack order actually does a spectacularly bad job of this with capships which means that it is not a fair test of the power of either ship.

If the moloch stays still and lets the deimos come to it does it do any better?

[aldo_14]

*Sigh*
Are you saying that all cap-ship battles should take place at maximum distance with both ships facing each other? If so , that would give an unfair advantage to offensive designs like the Rakshasa and Ravana, granted: war is not fair, but if all battles proceed the same way, that would suggest extremely poor strategy on the COs part. If not, what exactly are you saying, (plain as possible please, I'm as tired as hell)

He's saying; script it.

FS capship AI is almost somewhat of an afterthought; capships usually have better broadside weaponry, so the game just assumes it for all them and has them both try and keep their sides to each other; so they circle endlessly or, in once case, just keep travelling parallel.  So use paths and waypoints to have ships maneuver in a fiarly sensible way and attack tactically, even to the point of coding in each beam fire with SEXPs.

[Mars]

If the moloch stays still and lets the deimos come to it does it do any better?

Actually I've tested that, the ship that is sitting still will usually prevail over the active attacker.

And now that I've gotten three answers saying the same thing by three different people, I know what he's saying. However, at the point where you code in every beam fire, you can make the Fenris beat out an Orion, and the ability of the warships involved is no longer an issue, so I don't think that makes as much sense as FREDed simulated AI.

[starbug]

i say the Deimos, its got the anti-figther cover, no blind spots really and if you replace the 2 terran turrets below the forward Terslash's with 2 more Terslash's then it becomes a total nightmare for Capital ships!

Why is the Sobek only got 2 Vslash i'm sure that in the tech description is was designed to take on beam cannons and be able to go toe to toe with anythreat?

[Mars]

VSlash beams are very effective, doing more than twice the sustained damage of TerSlash beams. Also it's intended to go for weak spots. In Sicilian Defense you normally need to disable the broadside beams of the Orion in order to keep the Sobek alive.

[karajorma]

And now that I've gotten three answers saying the same thing by three different people, I know what he's saying. However, at the point where you code in every beam fire, you can make the Fenris beat out an Orion, and the ability of the warships involved is no longer an issue, so I don't think that makes as much sense as FREDed simulated AI.

Note that I didn't say to script the beam fire That's something you might want to do for mission building purposes but when simply testing the strength of both ships I think leaving it to the AI to fire is probably more fair unless you do a really good job with the scripting.

[Mars]

Yeah... sorry about that.

@Stratcomm: I just checked A Lion At The Door, the Dashor had 6,000 Vasudans on it.

[CP5670]

I always thought that number seemed quite excessive when compared to the destroyers, which are maybe ten times as large, carry fighters and generally serve as command hubs (while the corvettes are warships more than anything else), but still have only 10000.

[StratComm]

Yeah... sorry about that.

@Stratcomm: I just checked A Lion At The Door, the Dashor had 6,000 Vasudans on it.

Good catch.  Yes, the 6000 number is the correct one.  he high figure has been cited repeatedly as a reason that FS2 ships require tons of personel for weapon and energy systems, since that's basically what a Corvette is.

[Mars]

The crew number for destroyers (and especially the Colossus) always seemed like very little to me. Heh... in Freespace 1 when the GTC Orff, Fenris class, was destroyed you got this in the debreifing:

The GTC Orff was destroyed during your watch.  Dozens of lives were lost due to your poor performance.  This catastrophe will surely result in an increased Vasudan presence in this system.

The idea a ship the size of a Ticonderoga class cruiser has only dozens of crew members is hilarious.

Edit:

Does anyone know of a mod with a MGreen beam like beam?

[aldo_14]

I always thought that number seemed quite excessive when compared to the destroyers, which are maybe ten times as large, carry fighters and generally serve as command hubs (while the corvettes are warships more than anything else), but still have only 10000.

Well, if you look at modern warships there's actually a tendency for gun turrets to use more crew than the equivalent are for fighters on a carrier.

[Prophet]

The GTC Orff was destroyed during your watch.  Dozens of lives were lost due to your poor performance.  This catastrophe will surely result in an increased Vasudan presence in this system.

The idea a ship the size of a Ticonderoga class cruiser has only dozens of crew members is hilarious.

Perhaps the non essential crew was evacuated for the duration of the repairs. 12 dudes at the bridge, 12 in engineering making repairs. The next dozen can man the turrets (if we assume they need gunners). Depending on how many dozens fit in to "dozens", there might be 10 or so people strolling around the ship at their leisure. So we have something from 20 to 50 people onboard... I can buy that. Considering the ship was sitting there doing nothing.

[Mars]

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. That mission was kind of messed up it doesn't even mention the Orff is disabled.

[FireCrack]

Or it could be am etaphor...

[Mars]

A Metaphor? But how?

[StratComm]

It could be that the Orff was evacuated, except for the bridge crew and repair teams.  Or that the rest of the crew was standing by in escape pods. ( since the Hermes is too big and only holds 20, but whatever)  Or maybe a few dozen people is all the GTA expected to lose when a cruiser was destroyed.  FS1 isn't known to be the most coherent game ever created.