[Cyker]

I'll believe it when I see it.

From the betas I've seen so far, it's just more eye-candy, and not stable.
Lots of vulnerabilities have already been found in it - I just hope they get fixed before release!

They've always touted the next release as being more secure than previous - Esp. with 2k and XP, but it's always turned out to be BS?
Heck, my Win98 partition required less effort to secure than my 2k partition, and was never vulnerable to stupid worms like Blaster and Sasser.

Now, as these are betas, I'm reserving judgement, but to put things in perspective, I was running the Opera9alpha2 (And now beta1) and it was STILL more stable and faster than both Firefox and Internet Explorer...
If Vista was showing that kind of stability in beta I'd be a lot more hopeful, but it isn't.

Worse yet, testing in the office has shown that several apps, both retail and custom, have 'unexpected behaviour', which means re-tooling them and/or waiting for new versions...

[Descenterace]

You're judging stability by the Beta? Betas are never stable.

The kernel of Vista is more like UNIX than any previous Windows. It does allow tight control over the system. The problem is that every Windows has a colossal amount of junk around the kernel to make it usable for the average luser. That's the junk that differentiates *n[iu]x from Windows; MS kernels are usually pretty good but get ruined by the interface.

Anyone else find it funny that UNIX is ancient and hasn't changed much since the 80s but every other OS has steadily become more like UNIX?
In a similar vein, LISP in its current form is thirty years old but every other language is trying to catch up with it.

[Nuke]

there really isnt any reason to constantly write a new operating system every time the electronics improve. faster processors realy isnt an excuse to allow more unnessicary bloat into the os, this is something id wish mycrocrap would notice. id rather have something like unix/linux, which rather than add "new features" (which really are the same old features with different names) they focus on refinement of something that already works quite well. id rather have microsoft make an operating system which is open enough to allow for technologigcal advancement, and slowly refine it in thye unix/linux way. imagine having windows 98 (the best windows i think), but with a more refined (and less buggy) functionality. computers really havent changed much, why should the operating systems?

another thing i cant stand to see is computers being dumbed down for stupid people at the expense of effietiency. the file list feature for example, i can see it causing more confusion rather than making managing files easy for the dumb. it would be nice to have expert and novice modes. really people will use whatever theyre given, the product need not be good, just marketed well. if you give them something effitient they will be forced to live with it, but in the long run it would be more productive for them. youd figure with people getting computer education in grade school for the past 15 years, they could handel a less bull**** oriented operating system.

[Fury]

By that analogy PC's has not changed since the first IBM PC's, but does that mean we should still be using MS-DOS? Linux is also going to same direction as Vista and Tiger/Leopard (OS X) are, just check out Compiz, Xgl and AIGLX. As with Vista and Tiger/Leopard, nobody is forcing you to use "bloated" user interface in linux.

[Ferret]

By that analogy PC's has not changed since the first IBM PC's, but does that mean we should still be using MS-DOS? Linux is also going to same direction as Vista and Tiger/Leopard (OS X) are, just check out Compiz, Xgl and AIGLX. As with Vista and Tiger/Leopard, nobody is forcing you to use "bloated" user interface in linux.

Exactly, I've always used the Classic theme in XP, and will not change my ways with Vista. I was very happy they are packing it with a classic theme.

[IceFire]

I've been following this one for a while.  I'm definately interested to see and very impressed by the fact that they are finally, although it only took them 5 extra years to realize it, upgrading the way the interface is rendered and using the 3D accelerator to actually do the work.  One of my biggest gripes is that the Windows interface has always been sluggish...redrawing icons randomly...unable to display something while the CPU is engaged with loading...when you get into a game you breath a fresh sigh of relief.  Well finally thats no longer the case.  As a GUI/HID person I see this as a positive step.  I'm still interested to see how the UI evolves as there are a few HID problems that I'd like to see solved but we're getting some steps in the right direction.

The DRM doesn't scare me as much as it used to.  I'm hoping its not an issue.  But we'll see how it goes. Basically if consumers can't get their stuff to work there will be backlash and several companies pushing the DRM totem around have stepped back a bit and glanced around.  Progress!  But this is a major factor indeed.  If I can't get my Zen loaded up with my MP3 files then I will be pissed.

Vista sounds as if its had a security overhaul.  Apparently the UI for managing escallation of priviledges is still not very good yet....but the actual concept seems to be better than ever before.  We'll see how that carries through.  Re-written networking stack and other things leaves me thinking that maybe progress has been made. But don't expect a perfect track record...not even Linux or MacOS has that.

[ZmaN]

I'm pretty sure my uncle is gunna buy it a few weeks after it comes out so I'll just use his copy 

XP has been acting very badly for me lately and I dont know when Im upgrading so i'll rpobably start using it when it comes out.

I got a feeling that it will work better than XP.

[Mars]

If they decide to screw up Open GL I'm going to Debian or SuSe, if not, I'll buy it.

[WMCoolmon]

If it has anything like XP's product activation, I may just bite the bullet and give Debian a shot.

[Nuke]

If it has anything like XP's product activation, I may just bite the bullet and give Debian a shot.

damn skippy, activation always pissed me off. especially when you switche to a new computer every couple years. i want an os i can migrate between machines. it would be totally awesome if it was like 98, where you can take a hard drive out of one machine, stick it in another, and it would boot. of course your drivers were always screwed. 98 was the only os i knew of that could do that, making it a perfect os for hardware testing.

By that analogy PC's has not changed since the first IBM PC's, but does that mean we should still be using MS-DOS? Linux is also going to same direction as Vista and Tiger/Leopard (OS X) are, just check out Compiz, Xgl and AIGLX. As with Vista and Tiger/Leopard, nobody is forcing you to use "bloated" user interface in linux.

the computers havent changed in the way they work, the only thing thats changed is they now have suffietient power to run multiple apps. what made dos so great is that it was very simple to work with. only a couple basic concepts and a few commands needed to be learnt. of course dos came about when people had no clue what theese computers were capable of. once the technology was better understood and the machines grew powerfull then the need for multitasking arose and the best means of handeling multitasking was through a gui. if you look at early versions of mac os (what you would find on mac classic or a mac se, i forget the version) you have a simple, easy to use gui based operating system with support for multitasking, printing and to a small degree networking (apple's proprietary standard), all fit on a single disk (and usually your word processor and games on another disk). the purpose and features of the os havent changed much, yet the amouant of space it eats up in both memory and in drivespace is huge. a fresh install of xp is about a gig, over a thousand fold over early mac os. i just think the perpose of the os is to provide basic support for all your other software, to manage your files and your networking. theres no reason there be so much code there to handle a relatively simple job. the os simply makes the computer useable, the software makes it usefull. il probibly go for the classic interface cause its familiar. the os need not look good if its gonna slow down human-computer comunication.

[Fury]

That's your view of what an OS should be, and I appreciate it. By the looks of it, only linux or BSD is the right OS for you because with them you really can choose what to install and run. However, a mainstream OS cannot afford such an approach, a mainstream OS needs to be feature rich to please the masses. Even though I could be considered a geek, I still prefer feature rich OS over "lite" OS because that means I don't need to go and hunt down 3rd party applications to do stuff that OS should already have, but that's just a matter of point of view. I still would like Vista to have its own anti-virus and perhaps a lite version of MS Office (not MS Works!  ).

I'd still like to point out the difference between "bloated" and feature rich. This again is a matter of point of view, but in my books an OS becomes bloated after it uses RAM and CPU cycles for stuff that are completely useless. For example, the new Aero graphical interface does not make Vista bloated because Aero can be turned off. However, Aero would make Vista bloated if it would still use the same amount of resources when it is both on and off.


Anyways, althought not officially confirmed by MS yet, it has been rumoured that Windows Vista Beta 2 will be available for download for free by end of this month. Of course there will be a time limit, most likely 180 days. I have already prepared my secondary PC for Vista Beta 2. 

[Ferret]

If it has anything like XP's product activation, I may just bite the bullet and give Debian a shot.

damn skippy, activation always pissed me off. especially when you switche to a new computer every couple years. i want an os i can migrate between machines. it would be totally awesome if it was like 98, where you can take a hard drive out of one machine, stick it in another, and it would boot. of course your drivers were always screwed. 98 was the only os i knew of that could do that, making it a perfect os for hardware testing.

Yeah, last time I had a big update I replaced the motherboard, graphics card and processor. My brother wanted his PC upgraded too so I took all the old bits and built his Pc out of that. The only original thing in his was the hard drive. I was running XP he was using 98 SE.
XP refused to boot up no matter what I triead, I had to wipe and reinstall the bugger. Win 98 didn't give a stuff, booted up straight away, noticed all the new hardware and bam. All done.
It's obvious something has taken a step back along the way.

[Mars]

Could that have somthing to do with XP's security "features"?

[Nuke]

windows 98 was a troubleshooters dream. but with the next few versions up microsoft thought, why let em reuse their os, when we can jack em some cash? and thus they did. i just hope when mycroblow no longer supports xp they will remove the activation crap with a service pack or something. but who knows, vista might actually be good.

[Turnsky]

eh, i'll prolly end up getting vista when i build me a new PC, the idea of a 3d desktop space does intrigue me somewhat, i'd imagine it'd work even better with a touch-screen type interface, or a stylus-based system, like tablet PC's, or the uber expensive wacom cintiq's.

Either way, all this conjecture over operating systems leaves me to say only this: It's not the operating system that counts, it's how you use it.

i do wonder what vista's compatability is like with "Legacy" games, and whatnot, however.

[Descenterace]

Regardless of whether or not Vista is any good, I'll have to use it. Being a .NET developer is shaping up to be an easy life, but it does mean that I have to keep up with MS technologies.
From a dev PoV, Vista looks good. From a UI PoV... I hope to the gods the Beta is no indication of the UI quality. I'll probably stick to WinXP for games for the moment.

[Grug]

Regardless of the performance of the new OS, 96% of regular computer uses suggest they'd still consume donuts and read cartoons.

[Kosh]

If they decide to screw up Open GL I'm going to Debian or SuSe, if not, I'll buy it.

They did. It is now "emulated" instead of being fully supported. This is really going to **** up anything that uses OpenGL (Doom 3 is what comes to mind at the moment, but surely there are others).

That's another reason for not buying/pirating it. Maybe it has lots of other features, but OpenGL support is a very important feature that they "forgot" to include.

[Fury]

Looks like I have to explain and correct Kosh's statement.

Windows Vista's Desktop Window Manager (Aero) is a hardware-accelerated full-screen Direct3D application. As it stands today, you cannot run full-screen OpenGL application on top of full-screen Direct3D application and vice versa. So to provide a workaround Microsoft implemented OpenGL wrapper which supports OpenGL 1.4, of course it won't be as fast as native OpenGL implementation as it is a wrapper. However, video card manufacturers will bundle their own OpenGL wrappers with their own drivers which will be optimized for their hardware and also support OpenGL 2.0 and future versions of OpenGL. So in the end how big of a performance hit will hardware optimized OpenGL wrapper have as opposed to native implementation? Most likely minimal after their wrappers have matured. And this is only when you use Aero, it should be perfectly possible to provide native OpenGL implementation with video card drivers but you need to switch Aero off.

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings regarding OpenGL and Vista.

Edit: Almost forgot, if your PC has enough horsepower to run DWM (Aero) and a DX9/DX10 game on top of it smoothly, any performance hit from running an OpenGL game through your video card driver's own optimized OpenGL wrapper is most likely negligible. And if you aren't using Aero, you most likely won't even need a wrapper to run an OpenGL application.

[Shadow0000]

This remembers me to Glide wrappers performance, well Software mode can be a choice sometimes...