[jonskowitz]

 

Originally posted by Bobboau:
I like TS's UI better than 3DS, TS is just got Kay-rApy UV manipulation, and kills your mesh if it gets a hole.

Origionally posted by jonskowitz

yeah, what he said.

 

Origionally posted by LAW ENFORCER

What DID he say?

I'm not kidding.  When I first started using TS I couldn't stand it (probably because my first introduction to that series of programs was the beta version of TS 5, YUCK).  Since then I've bought TS 3.1 and the more I use it the more I like it.  You really get a lot of good features for $100 (US).  The only thing it seems to be lacking (that I miss anyway) is the ability to create lense flare effects.  

...the occasional corrupted mesh and memory leakage tends to leave people a little cold to it too  



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I told you that It would be done by November, well, mostly anyway...

[LAW ENFORCER]

We aint saying it aint good - were saying its crap. Totaly diffrent.

Its a 3D editor with rendering and powerful features - this is not a rubbish program but compared to others its a bit on the bad side (I have 3.1 SE, of a disc got TS2 before on a disc so no need for 3.1)

Do you do all you modeling in that program?

I use milkshape3D which is a low poly Half-life editor - it has no fance features apart from extrude. Thats it. I still get the models done. (about 80 so far) but it cost me $30, now I am gonna go buy a game and a site registration for my GRDLA site!! whoo hoo.

[Setekh]

Best renderer? Depends on the engine you've got installed - Ray Gun, Mental Ray, Brazil... I love Brazil.  

[KillMeNow]

i used to light ts 4.1 but and when i first started with lightwave the interface was abit scary but once you dig just afew cm below the surface it is far mroe user friendly than ts and far more capable - as for max i personally dont like it - interface is horrible and apparently some of the new features in r4 which people are ouuuuhh and ahhhhhhhing over have been in lightwave for years

i cant say much about texturing i not done much of that i do know that for along time it was lightwaves weakest point uv mapping was jsut non exisistant - obviously thats not the case now but how good it is i dont know i model stuff and i can apply colours even ones with some textures and stuff but never uv mapped it just applied them how they were

although of people like max but its statistics are flawed well not whole story anyway - year of games development companys will use it but most will have other packages too and use them for different things - just discreet doesn't mention that and newteks marketing department must be on vacation - i enquired about buying lightwave 7 (educational version cause will be sueful at college and then to upgrade to commerical version wont cost as much when i start using it to make money should that day ever come anyways...) and they still haven't gotten back to me - and they dont advertise much at all but anyway - people who are using ts i think would be more comfortable with lightwave than max - at least i found that but once they are they will be very relauctant to use truespace again - i have basically stopped making new ships for freespace becasue i dont like using ts anymore

[Vertigo1]

 

Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER:
MD-2389: what about word?  

How do you all afford these programs?
 

Word 97 has the same interface (with the exception of a few icon differences here and there) as Corel WordPerfect 8.  Word 2000 has the exact same interface as Word97, only with IE style toolbars and stuff.

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"You know you've played Freespace too much when you're driving along trying to use countermeasures to shake off pursuing highway police." - Top Gun

"Oh and Kazan - you have some nice rocks" - Thunder

Material Defender Studios

[Pez]

I agree with MD-2389, it's all got to to with personal preference. For example, I hate the UI in Truespace. But Bobboau likes it.

I use 3DS MAX and I think it's great. Easy to use and easy to learn. The UI is great and powerful, if you don't like the UI you can make your own.

Pez

[wEvil]

The lightwave renderer is terrible.  Get a grip.

As far as i'm aware it uses per-face radiosity (such as lightscape) to do its Physically correct lighting.  This is slow as hell plus the mesh you use has to be very tight indeed.

As far as learning curve goes..maybe ill write a review article or something

Lightwave-
of people like it, I hate its' guts.
Reasons for this are;

Its in two parts..i dont like having to switch applications to animate my models.

It has a slow renderer, plus the results look quite samey.

I hate the interface..i loaded it up for about 2 minutes, looked at it then shut it down..never used it since.

Maya;
Damn hi end package and is scriptable and moddable to buggery and back.

Downers -Subdivision Surfaces sucks
         Renderer sucks (BADLY)
         Cant make sense of NLA system (trax)
         Interface is stringy
         Needs PRman and a team of TDs

Uppers  -Sublime NURBS
         Hypershade is powerful once you  work it out (never for me  
         Good dynamics and V.good particles
         Very stable
         Rapid OpenGL performance

TrueSpace

You can get good results from it but dont compare a grape to an orange..its designed for a different user base to the hi-end apps.

Blender

See above..even though the feature list looks impressive

3Dsmax

This is my program of choice simply because ive been using it for 4 years.

Uppers - Excellent polymodeller
         Easy to use materials editor
         Fast Scanline renderer  
         Plugin Extensibility
         MAX is fast, beleive it or not.
         Good bones system in R4

Downers -Decent GI/radiosity renderers cost a packet
         Scanline renderer stands still on huge geometry counts (500,000+)
         Poor NURBS support
         Interface *looking* long in the tooth - its still very intuitive to use, however.

Softimage XSI

This is what i *WANT* to use, even though its very hard to learn

Uppers - Brilliant rendering (99.9% of the features in mentalray are completely integrated with XSI)
         Excellent polymodeller (better than MAX imo)
         Most sophisticated animation available (IK/FK mixing, best NLA system on the market, excellent envelopes editing etc.)
         Looks damned smooth
         Can script in ANY language (VBA, C++, java!)
         Sublime Subdivision Surfs (*any* poly object can also be a subdee!)

Downers -Should have come out 18 months ago
         Particles buggy (occasionally)
         Slower than Soft|3D
         NURBS could be better
         Needs Fur        
         Rendertree (material editor) VERY hard to get your head around
         Texture projections hard to use
         You need to do a workshop or a softimage XSI training course to work out how to use the damned thing (there goes my student loan for the summer..)

I hope this clears some stuff up.

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Remember, when someone annoys you it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and ***** slap them upside the head.

[KillMeNow]

i beent alking to some people who use maya and they say while its mostly stable it can be for certain things be buggy as hell - modeling in it is not that easy at all too

max everyone over rates max - max 4 sucks - like you with lightwave i opened it up looked at it for 2 mins closed it and never looked at it since  - and its sooooo much harder to learn than lightwave its not funny

and if you guys say max is easy then lightwave must have the best interface ever

lightwaves renderer is nop notch - its poly modeling is great - only area than needs work is the dynamics but even they are god if not perfect-  i would say anything that can be done in max can be done in lightwave - only thing lightwave lacks that max has is true nurbs but i think sub-patching is probally better for most things and you can always do splines

lightwave rules - ignour the somewhat dull appearance of teh interface casue whiles its dull its super easy to use  jsut learn the short cuts anyway its faster

and lightwave 7b rendering is faster than previous editions  and the end result is great

[Setekh]

Okay guys, let's keep it friendly  

Here's a question for you lot - which platforms does Maya run on? I think it's NT/2k/XP, but I'm not entirely sure - any thoughts?  

[This message has been edited by Setekh (edited 11-10-2001).]

[Pez]

 

Originally posted by KillMeNow:
i beent alking to some people who use maya and they say while its mostly stable it can be for certain things be buggy as hell - modeling in it is not that easy at all too

max everyone over rates max - max 4 sucks - like you with lightwave i opened it up looked at it for 2 mins closed it and never looked at it since  - and its sooooo much harder to learn than lightwave its not funny

and if you guys say max is easy then lightwave must have the best interface ever

lightwaves renderer is nop notch - its poly modeling is great - only area than needs work is the dynamics but even they are god if not perfect-  i would say anything that can be done in max can be done in lightwave - only thing lightwave lacks that max has is true nurbs but i think sub-patching is probally better for most things and you can always do splines

lightwave rules - ignour the somewhat dull appearance of teh interface casue whiles its dull its super easy to use  jsut learn the short cuts anyway its faster

and lightwave 7b rendering is faster than previous editions  and the end result is great

I have seen LW 5.5 for a moment in it looked like an good 3d app. And I'm sure that the newest LW is also a great 3d app. If it's better that 3DS Max? I don't know. But for me it really doesn't matter. Because when it comes down to being a good modeller or artist it's your mind and imagination that is your best tool.

Pez

[Nico]

 

Originally posted by KillMeNow:
i beent alking to some people who use maya and they say while its mostly stable it can be for certain things be buggy as hell - modeling in it is not that easy at all too

max everyone over rates max - max 4 sucks - like you with lightwave i opened it up looked at it for 2 mins closed it and never looked at it since  - and its sooooo much harder to learn than lightwave its not funny

and if you guys say max is easy then lightwave must have the best interface ever

lightwaves renderer is nop notch - its poly modeling is great - only area than needs work is the dynamics but even they are god if not perfect-  i would say anything that can be done in max can be done in lightwave - only thing lightwave lacks that max has is true nurbs but i think sub-patching is probally better for most things and you can always do splines

lightwave rules - ignour the somewhat dull appearance of teh interface casue whiles its dull its super easy to use  jsut learn the short cuts anyway its faster

and lightwave 7b rendering is faster than previous editions  and the end result is great

that's my exact opposed advice. I opened LW, tried 2/3 things, closed it, never opened it again. Max could be the best because if you don't like ANYTHING, you can change it.
Anyway I won't say it is coz, as I said, I didn't really try LW. How can you DARE saying Max is crap when you didn't even try it? I'm disapointed on this, KMN. Shame on you.

Otherwise,nobody tried povray+moray?  

[Gortef]

I'm not a modeler... I've never been into 3D modeling much. But I must say that Cinema4D really opened my eyes  

In my opinion it's one of the most simple to use 3D modeling softwares I've ever seen, and you can make really high quality work with it.

[KillMeNow]

ssorry but the whole modifier stack and all that - whiel i know its useful i dont like it personally - you did try and teach me max but on my own without help in half the time i had achieve much more with lightwave and witha little help from retile i can now model some cool stuff although still dont have a clue how to texture other than just proceural texutures but cant do much with just them but anyway i'm sure i'll work it out soon

[wEvil]

the modifier stack in MAX just operates as a construction history.  I never use it anyway unless im doing organic/NURMS (subdee) modelling.

And explain this - if Newtek  have such an obviously superior product why are they selling it for $2500?

Im not slagging any software off, or i'm trying not to--  I feel a BALANCED viewpoint is very important, but its hard to do when so many people in "the other camp" have their heads stuck up their own arses.

C4D is a very good package but isnt as flexible from what i've heard.



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Remember, when someone annoys you it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and ***** slap them upside the head.

[KillMeNow]

thats the thing - basically becasue of better marketing and better finacial backing tehy have been able to basically get loads of people using it so they can then up the price - and i'm not saying that max is bad but everyone jsut assumes its better than lightwave - its not - there are very few thigns you cant do in lightwave that you can do in max - and of the thing max does that lightwave does too max uses plugins for

lightwave is a great piece of kit and i think not many give it a fair go

[Nico]

hmm... the stack... I never use it either. Each time I make a modif, I collapse it, coz I tend to mess up with it when it's about UV mappings.

[DragonClaw]

I've done a bit through max, but have done more through Lightwave...

For one thing, Max takes up a lot more space on the computer, probably because of its mostly-graphical interface

Another: Lightwave's interface IS better than Max's, don't mistake it for being dull, because those little buttons hold many features

Yet Another: Lightwave is a LOT easier to animate with, mostly because it was COMPLETELY meant for Babylon 5, which is animation(duh)  

While they hold basically the same features, it's easier to get the features out of Lightwave than Max(which you have to dig through all those menus and options)

But this is just my opinion

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    -Director of the staff of Hidden Terror.
    -WebMaster of Imperial Productions

   

The fear always controls our attitude, let us fear no more!

[Nico]

bah, the UA pb is a wrong one, both progs are built around shortcuts in fact.

[KillMeNow]

i'll agree with you there - i use the lightwave shortcuts - far simpler than hunting through menus - however i do use some of the mnu stuff cause you cant rmember every shortcut  - but something about max i didn't like - it jsut didn't feel right

[wEvil]

Read the help file.

And if you dont like the defaults plug your own in.

As for menus..at least MAXs arrangement makes sense - try softimage|3D and you'll know what 'orrible layout is!

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Remember, when someone annoys you it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and ***** slap them upside the head.