[Flipside]

Well, I've always been interested in what sort of effect the destruction of Capella may have had on the local Nodes, something as cataclysmic as that could, using psuedo-science (since Jump Nodes don't actually exist, a little poetic license is allowed) have ripped open more Nodes or strengthened or closed others. Once again, using psuedo science, those Nodes need not neccesarily have opened in Capella either, since subspace around both ends of the tunnels would be affected, and since some of those nodes were too weak for the GTVA to use etc, that could mean more or less anywhere.

The wonderful thing about Subspace is that, really, it's up to the campaign writers to define it, as long as it's not too silly, I love the fact that people have carte blanche to interpret things as they see fit, it's one of the joys of making a FS2 campaign. I guess that's why I'm always a bit cautious when people start rolling out the Canon, as it were

[Nuclear1]

It all depends on exactly how newly discovered Laramis actually was.

It wasn't newly-discovered, per se. The Command Brief said that it was previously-unexplored, meaning the GTA could have known of its existence and recognized that it had a jump node, but the 14 Year War took priority over investigating fringe systems.

[Dark Hunter]

Formalhaut is a canon system isn't it? And on 's nodemap Formalhaut is colored red, like Gamma Draconis and Capella, which are Shivan-occupied systems (well, not really Capella, since it is at the momet a blazing hot stellar gas field.). I think is implying that the Lucifer came through Formalhaut.

[aldo_14]

Formalhaut is a canon system isn't it? And on 's nodemap Formalhaut is colored red, like Gamma Draconis and Capella, which are Shivan-occupied systems (well, not really Capella, since it is at the momet a blazing hot stellar gas field.). I think is implying that the Lucifer came through Formalhaut.

Formalhaut is not on the offical nodemap, ergo is not canon

It's unclear if 'red' on the Volition nodemap means 'Shivan' or 'cut off'

[Sarafan]

I think is implying that the Lucifer came through Formalhaut.

I'm dont see any shivans there.

[karajorma]

You're 329 years too early

[TrashMan]

Wait a minute - so you just invented an arbitrary blast speed of an artificially created supernova in an imaginary (by your description) star system, and then invented an arbitrary speed for travel in subspace within said system (contradicting the explicit canon description of 'nearly instantaneous'), and cited that as some sort of proof?   !

I didn't invent anything. The cutscene shows the supernova obliderate two planets within 3 seconds, thus it wouldn't take it long ro reach the edge of the system at that speed.

And how much is "nearly instantanius"? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? 20 seconds? Surely it varries depending on the jump distance (aparently node travel times also vary depending on the system distances)

[karajorma]

I didn't invent anything. The cutscene shows the supernova obliderate two planets within 3 seconds, thus it wouldn't take it long ro reach the edge of the system at that speed.

So in other words you've cherry picked the data you want in order to give you a FTL explosion even though there is as much data pointing out that it's not FTL at all (both in the mission and the cutscenes) and you're insisting that this gives you a true picture of the speed of the supernova rather than simply being due to the fact that the art department probably just wanted to make something that looked cool.

Fine. If you're trying to make this up lets at least quantify how stupid this **** actually is. The Sol - Saturn distance is 1,400 million kilometres. As a rough guess how far out would you say that the ringed planet was from Capella then? Roughly the same distance? Much closer? Much further away?

[TrashMan]

I didn't invent anything. The cutscene shows the supernova obliderate two planets within 3 seconds, thus it wouldn't take it long ro reach the edge of the system at that speed.

So in other words you've cherry picked the data you want in order to give you a FTL explosion even though there is as much data pointing out that it's not FTL at all (both in the mission and the cutscenes) and you're insisting that this gives you a true picture of the speed of the supernova rather than simply being due to the fact that the art department probably just wanted to make something that looked cool.

Fine. If you're trying to make this up lets at least quantify how stupid this **** actually is. The Sol - Saturn distance is 1,400 million kilometres. As a rough guess how far out would you say that the ringed planet was from Capella then? Roughly the same distance? Much closer? Much further away?

So..double standards here.. When something from the game goes along with a theroy of yours (regardless how unrealstic, stupd or how likely it is to be a mistake made by [V]) tehn you shout - "But it's canon! It's canon!"

I don't care how wrong the cuscene probably is - it's in the game - it's canon!

And yes, I know that FTL explosions prolly aren't possible in the FS universe, but I don't recall anything from the game - the mission or cutscene in particular that defies the cutscene.

[aldo_14]

I didn't invent anything. The cutscene shows the supernova obliderate two planets within 3 seconds, thus it wouldn't take it long ro reach the edge of the system at that speed.

I'll let kara answer that one.....but, remind me, how long does it take to reach the player in the mission?

And how much is "nearly instantanius"? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? 20 seconds? Surely it varries depending on the jump distance (aparently node travel times also vary depending on the system distances)

Why surely? It's totally different to inter-system travel, that's made very clear by the simple fact you can do it in a fighter in FS1.  Why not, say, 5 nanoseconds?  That's closer to 'nearly instantaneous' in common parlance, I'd say.

So..double standards here.. When something from the game goes along with a theroy of yours (regardless how unrealstic, stupd or how likely it is to be a mistake made by [V]) tehn you shout - "But it's canon! It's canon!"

I don't care how wrong the cuscene probably is - it's in the game - it's canon!

And yes, I know that FTL explosions prolly aren't possible in the FS universe, but I don't recall anything from the game - the mission or cutscene in particular that defies the cutscene.

FTL; Faster Than Light.  Now, how exactly would you see something faster than light?

I notice you completely avoided answering the question, launching into some bizarre tangent about how you've been called out trying to make up stuff contradicting the game.  Again.

[karajorma]

So..double standards here.. When something from the game goes along with a theroy of yours (regardless how unrealstic, stupd or how likely it is to be a mistake made by [V]) tehn you shout - "But it's canon! It's canon!"

What double standard? The animation contradicts ITSELF as to how fast the supernova travels. If you want to shout that the cutscene is canon I can too. The amount of time it takes for the leading edge of the supernova explosion to pass from one side of the ringed planet to the other is roughly the time it would take a shockwave moving at lightspeed. So it's also canon that the shockwave is moving at lightspeed.

I took great pains to point out this fact earlier but you completely ignored it to go off on a rant about how I was ignoring canon. I'm doing nothing of the sort. The cutscene makes it crystal clear that the shockwave is moving both faster than light AND slower than light.

There is a difference between disregarding evidence because I don't like it and disregarding it because it contradicts itself. But you don't care because as I stated in response to your previous comment this is nothing to do with the speed of the Supernova and everything to do with the fact that you think you've found some canon fact I've got wrong with which you can extract some petty little revenge for previous threads.

Which is why you completely disregarded my previous post (Where I had already rebutted any comments you made in this one) and went straight to claiming you'd found a flaw in my logic and that I was discarding canon evidence that the shockwave is FTL.


Absolutely pathetic!

I don't care how wrong the cuscene probably is - it's in the game - it's canon!

Yes. The in game cutscene canonically puts the shockwave at a different speed from the in game cutscene. And also from the final mission. So now we have 3 canon speeds for the shockwave. I'm well within my rights to simply pick whichever one is the most sensible.

And yes, I know that FTL explosions prolly aren't possible in the FS universe, but I don't recall anything from the game - the mission or cutscene in particular that defies the cutscene.

Except all the stuff in my half page post which point out exactly where the game defies a FTL shockwave


EDIT : And I notice you didn't answer my question about how far out the ringed gas planet actually is. It's a reasonable question. The fact that the supernova reached it in 3 seconds means bugger all if it's 9x10^8 metres away from Capella.

[Mura]

and this is how you  make a storm in a glass of water -___-

i go with the "we wanted to make it big" thing..... if they really wanted to make a cool cutscene, some rules would be broken in the process... besides... we are kinda getting off-topic now....

my thoughts on the sathanas.... they were turned into spacedust

[Dark Hunter]

Total vaporisation more likely.

[karajorma]

we are kinda getting off-topic now.

Not really. What the Sathanas fleet did after the supernova started is completely dependant on how long they had to do it after all.

[Flipside]

And calm down everyone, I don't want to have to figure out how to lock a thread at this time of night

[watsisname]

Here's another (2) questions:

How far away from Capella do you think the Vega node is?  I believe there is evidence to support more than one answer.
Also:  Do you believe the Vega node is closer to, or farther from, Capella than the ringed planet?

[Dark Hunter]

Well, if you judge by the explosion cutscene (yes I KNOW it is incorrect at certain points) The Vega node was quite a bit farther out than the ringed giant.


That's the only source, unfortunately, that we have. I don't remember seeing a ringed giant in-game (did they even have a ringed planet bitmap?).

[karajorma]

Well, if you judge by the explosion cutscene (yes I KNOW it is incorrect at certain points) The Vega node was quite a bit farther out than the ringed giant.


That's the only source, unfortunately, that we have. I don't remember seeing a ringed giant in-game (did they even have a ringed planet bitmap?).

Actually it's not the only source. Open the mission and look at how big Capella is. Compare that with how big Capella is in the cutscene. The mission is quite clearly taking place closer to Capella than the ringed planet.

The only explaination that really makes sense within canon is that the dual between the two corvettes seen in the ending cutscene  is not taking place at the Vega node but elsewhere in the system.

Or you can say that obviously didn't care about these issues and got several things scientifically wrong in the cutscenes and in the final mission because they were concentrating on making things look cool.

[aldo_14]

You'd have to be bloody close to Capella, I think, to be able to see the Sathani.......

[Dark Hunter]

Close as in <.1 AU's or closer, and Capella isn't nearly that big in the mission.