Author Topic: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?  (Read 25397 times)

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Offline Kazan

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« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 09:07:51 am by Kazan »
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Offline Janos

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
Is this the same Gregory S. Paul who has made some awesome books about theropods?
lol wtf

 

Offline Sarafan

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
Its about time people saw the light or the lack of it. :P

 

Offline Kazan

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
what? no "captain obvious" statements like I got from a female coworker of mine who has veggie-tales as her desktop and workstation name
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
In a similar vein; http://www.afajournal.org/2006/august/0806colleges.html

Quote
It is obvious that the Left has a prominent place on public, private, secular and Christian campuses and is so convincing that some Christians are denying their faith while other students are forming a personal set of beliefs for the first time.

In his book University of Destruction, David Wheaton cites research by Dr. Gary Railsback and the Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA. Wheaton wrote, “Depending on the type of college attended, as many as 51% of students who claimed to be ‘born-again Christians’ as freshmen said they were no longer born-again Christians four years later.” (See chart on facing page.)

 “The trial everyone has heard about – but most people underrate – is the sheer spiritual disorientation of the modern campus,” wrote J. Budziszewski in a Focus on the Family magazine article.

“Methods of indoctrination are likely to include not only required courses, but also freshman orientation, speech codes, mandatory diversity training, dormitory policies, guidelines for registered student organizations and mental health counseling,” Budziszewski added.

“[T]he modern university, having lost its moral convictions, has attached itself to relativistic doctrines such as tolerance and diversity, which mean, in practice, tolerance of anything but Biblical faith and traditional morality.”

:eek2:!

Forming a set of personal beliefs?!  Tolerance and diversity?!  These things are clearly evil!

(looking at the graph at the bottom, surely this actually simply indicates religious belief declines in line with improved education.....?)

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
You'll forgive me if I choose to equate this with deviation from the principles on which religion was founded, i.e. tolerance and love, instead of religion.

:p
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Offline an0n

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
Who ****ing cares?

I'm pretty sure for every instance of "Guide thy neighbour to the path of the Lord's light" in the Bible, there's another verse of "And God said unto Noah: **** 'em."
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Offline Mars

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
Religion = No problem
In your face, thou shalt go to Hell religion = Not so good
"Born again" ≈ In your face, thou shalt go to Hell religion

I see a lot of Christians, Jews, and Musilums every day at my school, they all (for the most part) get along fine, it's when there's a person who whacks other people with their religion where it's a problem. For the most part they do this because religion is a really easy thing to whack people with, therefore there is a higher incident of anti-social behavior in religious people because of all the jerks who are in the religion to be jerks (fundi's in general happen when this is passed on from father to son)

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
wow, somone with more than a masters figured out what ive been saying all along. now maybe people will believe me.

no go burn down a church!

christianity is embedded with the tyranical spirit of the roman empire. roman behaviours are made manifest in all who believe in the christian god.

</starting a cult>
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Offline Rictor

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
I think your main problem, Kaz, is thinking of religion (and indeed everything) as a tool to make man's life better, and measuring it against the useful/useless standard. A related example would be nature. Nature is not beautiful or precious because we can go out and have a good time in it, or because it makes for cool pictures or because it provides us with essential resources, but it has inherent value outside of man. To try to subordinate it to our desires only speaks, to me at least, of arrogance. Religion is slightly different since it is a man-made creation, and does not exist independetly of people. But having an opinion about religion based on crime rates and whatnot (even assuming that the figures are perfectly relevant and perfectly true) is like measuring the value of art based on ticket sales or museum attendance. The very object which you are judging can not be judged on worldly results, since the precise reason it is important is because it is higher (or deeper, call it what you will) than worldly matters. Art, for example, is let's say more noble, though there are probably better words to describe it, than everyday matters, so I do not love art because it produces good results or hate it because it produces bad results, but base my opinion on more personal, more intangible, more mystical reasons.

Ya dig?

 

Offline Kazan

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
use more paragraphs.. i only skimmed

religion in and of itself is arrogance "i cannot provide any evidence for X, but i'm going to believe X exists because doing so makes me feel good, feel important" - that is the upmost in arrogance. 

this study just merely reinforces the opinion I have of religion, based upon observation of it's effects on society: not only is it an expression of arrogance, but it is harmful to those around it
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Offline Ace

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
The very object which you are judging can not be judged on worldly results, since the precise reason it is important is because it is higher (or deeper, call it what you will) than worldly matters. Art, for example, is let's say more noble, though there are probably better words to describe it, than everyday matters, so I do not love art because it produces good results or hate it because it produces bad results, but base my opinion on more personal, more intangible, more mystical reasons.

Except that the entire spiel there is functionally a developed 'defense mechanism' of the cultural idea that is religion. In a sense modern art, facing criticism, also took on the "just cuz" mechanism in the form of "art is what the artist claims it to be."
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Offline Kamikaze

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
Most religions claim to be the supreme code of ethics to live by, not some foo-foo philosophical treatise on life and existence (not that those deserve much exemption from anything either). As long as it establishes itself as such, it's entirely reasonable to gauge its effect on society through objective metrics.
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline Rictor

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
use more paragraphs.. i only skimmed

religion in and of itself is arrogance "i cannot provide any evidence for X, but i'm going to believe X exists because doing so makes me feel good, feel important" - that is the upmost in arrogance. 

this study just merely reinforces the opinion I have of religion, based upon observation of it's effects on society: not only is it an expression of arrogance, but it is harmful to those around it

Dude, it's like 150 words. If you skimmed it, please don't respond. We're all grown-ups here.

Anyway, you are mistaking ignorance with arrogance. Your first paragraph is true if you substitute the word arrogance for ignorance. Arrogance is believing that everything in this world, indeed this universe, has value only if it serves us, and that all things are only relevant in the ways they affect mankind.

The very object which you are judging can not be judged on worldly results, since the precise reason it is important is because it is higher (or deeper, call it what you will) than worldly matters. Art, for example, is let's say more noble, though there are probably better words to describe it, than everyday matters, so I do not love art because it produces good results or hate it because it produces bad results, but base my opinion on more personal, more intangible, more mystical reasons.

Except that the entire spiel there is functionally a developed 'defense mechanism' of the cultural idea that is religion. In a sense modern art, facing criticism, also took on the "just cuz" mechanism in the form of "art is what the artist claims it to be."

It's not a defense mechanism, it's an acceptance, indeed an embrace, of the irrationality which characterizes human nature.

Why is love important? It isn't, in any objective or rational sense. Why is art important? Why is nature important? Why is honour, loyalty, brotherhood important? They aren't, none of these things are worth any damn from a reasonable perspective outside of the human mind. But would you not agree that they are important? What I'm saying is that "It's good because we believe it's good, and for no other reason" is a perfectly decent response, and that our own biases and attitudes are just a good a thing to go by as anything else out there.

Much of the time, those things we hold dear or inneficient or even detrimental. Those things we hold dear hurt us, set us back, create extra work and unnecessary suffering, but hat's OK because we believe them to be important, and worth the hassle. I could give a thousand examples, and most likely you can think of as many yourself. A bunch of geese crossing the street are a hassle, an inefficiency, and their lives are in no way important to us. But that inefficency is less important than our illogical desire to preserve animal lives. You decide to build a house, and decide that it's important, for some deluded sense of "home", that you build it yourself. It would be so much easier if you bought a pre-fabricated one, just plopped it in place, but there's that nasty illogical emotion again. You sacrifce comfort for sentimentality. Your brother goes off to far, and you decide to go with him. Your presence will in no way lessen the danger to him, and will only put another person, you, in that same danger, so all things considered it's a waste, a destructive and useless stupidity, but woul you question the inherent value of such comaraderie?

But I will say that if countries with more religious populations are suffering from more social ilss, first of all society is a whole lot more complicated than a single factor, but that the religions of these countries need to ask themselves some very serious questions. Their job is not necessarily to make the world a better place, but they shouldn't be making it noticeably worse.

 
Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
Religion is arrogance, at least those that claim Man was created in God's image and that God actually cares about us are. Fact is, in this huge Universe, the chance that it was all made for us is vanishingly small. We are not important. Deal with it.

TBH, I was going to say 'is this news?' about that article (in fact, I just have), but being ever wary of statistics, I thought a little more about it.

Is it not more probable that religion is merely a symptom of an underlying factor? Actually ,the argument could be turned right around: could we be drawing the opposite conclusion from the statistics? Maybe religion is the result of these social factors?

My distrust of statistics applied to something as nebulous as 'society' is almost as great as, if not equal to, my distrust of faith.
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Offline Fury

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
Religion is arrogance,
Religion is both ignorance and arrogance. Religions have caused more evil than good, that's the bottom line.

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
Aren't we all supposed to be in heaven/purgatory/hell by now, anyways?

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
Religion is arrogance,
Religion is both ignorance and arrogance. Religions have caused more evil than good, that's the bottom line.

Yeah, but they also pacified the Western Europe after the fall of Rome and turned the more or less anarchic tribes and nations into more... obedient and stable entities during the first millennium.
lol wtf

 

Offline Turnsky

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
people got paid to state the bloody obvious?..
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Religion linked with antisocial behavior?
Are we talking about religion, or the people who use it as a method to inspire/control others, though?