[Janos]

1000 hours of the histroy channel

oh dear

[Colonol Dekker]

We all know that RA built them to land his spaceship on   

[Nuke]

if i was an alien, i wouldnt want to land

[Colonol Dekker]

Oh, you're one of the ID4 aliens who'd just beam us i take it



On topic, Pyramids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramids have been found in

1.1 Egyptian pyramids
1.2 Nubian pyramids
1.3 Mesopotamians pyramids
1.4 Mesoamerican pyramids
1.5 France
1.6 Ancient Rome
1.7 China

[CmdKewin]

And don't forget Chinese Pyramids.

History has not gone the way we think it did. There are at least a few BIG question marks in our timelime. Which are not going to be answered, and, if they will, it is going to be with teories which have no sense whatsoever. Do you seriously believe that the Giza Pyramids where built using ramps who would have to be twice the size of the Pyramids themselves? Come on... I'm not talking about green little aliens, but at least think on it. Las time I checked, man's greatest strength was curiosity.

[Janos]

And don't forget Chinese Pyramids.

History has not gone the way we think it did. There are at least a few BIG question marks in our timelime. Which are not going to be answered, and, if they will, it is going to be with teories which have no sense whatsoever. Do you seriously believe that the Giza Pyramids where built using ramps who would have to be twice the size of the Pyramids themselves? Come on... I'm not talking about green little aliens, but at least think on it. Las time I checked, man's greatest strength was curiosity.

Actually I do because it's reasonable and not some weirdo guesswork, and it only needs to be a slope reaching the top of the current level being built. Dirt is easier to handle than solid rock.

And if history has not gone the way we think it did, then you can quite easily prove this and become really famous. Using scientific method of course.

[Nuke]

ancient civilizations were more advanced than we give credit for. we know the egyptians used ramps on some of their building projects, as archeological evidence exists. weather they used it on their pyramids is another matter. there are theorys about wooden heavy lift systems which may have been used. theres no evidence of such a thing, but if it did exist it would have been dismantled and reused or recycled. as far as i know wood in egypt was a rare commodity back then and you dont just throw your tools away when you finish building.

[Flipside]

You are correct about the wood, local wood tended to be too weak to hold the weights involved, so Egypt imported a lot of Cedarwood.

The favourite would probably have been ramps, faster to set up, and if you know the trick (building most of the ramp out of sand) you can clear the ramp away as you go, thus saving on wood for a lot of the scaffolding as well. However, as you say, theres evidence (grooves in the rock that look like fixings etc) that winch-systems, probably based on the Nile water-pumps, were used to lift blocks into place.

The most surprising discoveries being made about the Egyptians atm, oddly enough, is about just exactly how far their influence reached. Theres evidence that a lot more of the world was known to Ancient Egypt than our knowledge of their shipbilding suggested.

[CmdKewin]

My point exactly. I don't believe in green little aliens, as I said.  But, if a trained geologist, with 25+ years of experience tells me that the degrading (don't know the exact word in english) of the rock that the Sphinx is composed with can only possible come from water, I'm inclined to at least consider is opinion as "wort of further analysis". Maybe he will turn out to be wrong, but at least you VERIFIED it. If there's one thing that bugs me is the NON-willingness from the Academic Comunity to even consider new teories and explanations about stuff whe don't know.  Isn't Modern Science based on empiricism and experimentation?


p.s.: you've got to admit that the Orion Constellation simbology is at least intriguing. Why not? Every major ancient civilization did built temples, oracles and statues commemorating and celebrating their gods,heroes,achievements. And find me a better way to do that than build everything in hard stone, with THREE gigantic and wonderful pyramids.

[karajorma]

p.s.: you've got to admit that the Orion Constellation simbology is at least intriguing.

The orion constellation stuff is the biggest load of **** I've ever heard in my life.

1) The three stars only sorta line up with the pyramids
  a) We're talking about 3 points only. Which only sorta correspond with the positions of the stars in the sky. The Egyptians built the pyramids to a degree of perfection that makes it seem unlikely that they would settle for the capstones to be tens of metres out of alignment with the stars.
  b) Although Graham Hancock claims that there is a perfect match for the angles he's talking utter bollocks. The angle of the pyramids is 38 degrees while the angle of Orion is ~50.
  c) Most importantly though the stars only match up when you rotate the entire Giza complex around by 180 degrees. To believe that the Egyptians were able to match up the pyramids to face due north perfectly and then build the monument upside down is ridiculous.
2) There is good archeological evidence that the main reason the pyramids were not simply built in a straight line is because of the fact that there was a great big quarry in the way.


And don't even think of bringing up the Angkor Wat - Draco thing unless you wish for me to taunt you again If you want to read up on why that's a load of crap you can take a look here.

[CmdKewin]

At least you've looked at them and said "no, that's bs", "and that's not".  I've read many books (both official and non), seen many documentaries AND went to Egypt on a three weeks "see for yourself" tour.  And I can only judge by that. I don't pretend to have THE answer to Life, The Universe and Everything (which, btw, is 42, as we all know...). I've taken pieces here and there, put them together and made myself and opinion. That's the important thing, not me being wrong or right.

p.s: And where did I speak about Atlantis?

[karajorma]

The Orion Constellation thing you talked about has been heavily pushed by Graham Hancock who bases the claim that it is true on the notion (I refuse to even call it a hypothesis) that there was a master civilisation 12,500 years ago who taught everyone to read and write as well as where to build pyramids several thousand years later. Although I don't recall him actually calling the civilisation Atlantis it's a pretty good bet that it's where he thinks the legend comes from.

The thing is most of these weird and wacky notions have been looked into. Sometimes I've done it personally and sometimes I simply trust the general opinion of scientists who have. I don't believe that scientists are as close-minded as you believe. The fact that epigenetics went from rank heresy to accepted scientific fact in only a few years is proof of that.

In similar fashion you have one or two geologists claiming that the sphinx is 2000 years older than it should be and every single other expert in the field claiming that his work contains significant flaws. It's worth pointing out that like Hancock, Schoch (the guy behind the water erosion claims) is a believer in an older global culture that predates all know civilisations and therefore probably shouldn't be trusted further than you can throw him.

[Colonol Dekker]

You dont think 2000 years of stelar drift would move the earth off axis slightly?

[CmdKewin]

You dont think 2000 years of stelar drift would move the earth off axis slightly?

It surely has. But it's so infinitesimal that it becomes very difficult to predict and calculate (at least, from what I know). Maybe someone could do Hancocks calculations again considering that factor too, and see what it gives.

And, if the pyramids are indeed an "exclusive" of Egypt, someone has to explain to me why they are found also in other parts of the world. Coincidence? Maybe, or maybe not.
Hell, until the 18th century, pre-colombian central america was believed to be just a bunch of savages. Yet, they obviously are not.
But, I have to admit that, no matter how many explanations we give to whatever fact, there will always be scepticals, non-believers and people who start asking questions. That's part of the human nature. And, that's what I like the most of life.

p.s.: erosion, that's the word I was missing, thanks.

[Wobble73]

Hell, give me a map of Manahattan, mark out every major skyscraper and landmark and I'll show you a constellation to match!

[Colonol Dekker]

I never strive to counter argue, just through another "avenue of thought" into the mixe,
I for one have never bothered checking up on this, But i heard on many a late night documentary that the Cydonian head on mars has pyramids that are in the same configuration as Egypt.


RA Lives !!!!

[Nuke]

i dont think that there were any atlantis-level super-civilizations back in 10,000 bc, however i do think there were civilized peoples back then which may have lived in costal communities, which were wiped out by the iceage thaw. there are ruins in japan and other places that have been underwater sence the thaw. im not saying that they would be advanced people. just advanced enough to build a sustainable community. i refuse to think that civilization just popped up all over the place out of nowhere at around 5k bc. it was most likely upscaled from previous lesser attempts at civilized society. and the reason pyramids are everywhere is because theyre not exactly hard to build.

[CmdKewin]

and the reason pyramids are everywhere is because theyre not exactly hard to build.

Depends on how big you make them. Ask any crane company to lift you a 200 t object, and they'll tell you just how "simple" it is...

[Nuke]

well im not saying the great pyrimid was a simple project. what i mean is its the only kind of building ancient peoples could have built on such a large scale. if they want to build big, a pyramid was really the only way to go.

[karajorma]

Exactly Nuke. You've got it in one.

People act like ancient people built pyramids for some mystical reason when it's simply architecture 101. The pyramid is the largest stable structure a people with that tech can build. Have you ever thought that perhaps it isn't that they all built pyramids but that only the pyramids have survived due to the inherent stability of the structure?

If you want to wonder about coincidences ask your self whether it is one or not that even though they are the oldest, it is the pyramids alone out of the 7 wonders of the world that is still standing. I don't think they get many earthquakes at Giza but I wouldn't be certain that is the only reason the pyramids outlasted everything else.

You dont think 2000 years of stelar drift would move the earth off axis slightly?

Hancock's calculations include procession. In fact that's the reason he claims that the civilisation's golden age was 12,500 years ago. Even taking that into account he's still wrong.

Hell, give me a map of Manahattan, mark out every major skyscraper and landmark and I'll show you a constellation to match!

Now that is a spooky coincidence. The link I gave above to Horizon's webpage did exactly that. They made Leo. Far more accurately than Hancock made Draco too.

i dont think that there were any atlantis-level super-civilizations back in 10,000 bc, however i do think there were civilized peoples back then which may have lived in costal communities, which were wiped out by the iceage thaw. there are ruins in japan and other places that have been underwater sence the thaw.

If you're talking about the Yonaguni ruins they're another load of bollocks. If not source please. I'd be interested in reading up on them.