[Herra Tohtori]

BBC News: US Iran report branded dishonest

... In a leaked letter, the IAEA said a congressional report contained serious distortions of the agency's own findings on Iran's nuclear activity.

...

Signed by a senior director at the International Atomic Energy Agency, Vilmos Cserveny, the letter raises objections over the committee's report released on 23 August.

It says the report was wrong to say that Iran had enriched uranium to weapons-grade level when the IAEA had only found small quantities of enrichment at far lower levels.

Why do I get the picture that I've seen something very similar before? 

Oh wait! That's because, unfunnily enough, they did!

It's incredible, what those people try to feed to the world. It's even more incredible to me that they can actually keep saying things like that and stay in the office.

On the other hand, I think it's a shame that with their previous actions, US has pulled the whole world along with it to a syndrome of "the boy who called wolf".

Even though I do consider Iran to be greater threat to its neighbours and the world than Iraq, I am also highly suspicious of reports of that danger coming from US direction. They have destroyed their own credibility almosst completely in my eyes, and this newest failure to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth just strengthens my doubts of ever trusting anything that comes out of that tube of propaganda that used to be the Government of the United States of America... They seem to be saying anything they will, everything they will and nothing but what they will to say, and they donät seem to be concerned about whether it actually fits the real world around them.

I suppose they would argue that black is white if it suited them for any reason. Oh wait, black is white, when its viewed ad the light of sufficient intensity... like a nuke.



-Tell me. What do you do with nukes?
Burn them in nuclear reactors!
Burn!
Burn! Burn them up! Burn!...
-And what do you use in reactors apart from nukes?
More nukes!
Shh!
...Uranium?
-So, why are nukes used in reactors?
<pause>
B--... 'cause they're made of... uranium?

-Good! Heh heh.
Oh, yeah. Oh.
-So, how do we tell whether it is made of uranium?
Build a reactor out of it.
-Ah, but can you not also make reactors that use coal, oil or natural gas?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah. True. Uhh...

-Does uranium float in water?
No. No.
No, it sinks! It sinks!
Throw it into the pond!
The pond! Throw the nuke into the pond!
-What also sinks in water?
...Stones!
...Iron!
...Everything that has density over 1000 kg/m^3!
...Lead! Lead!
-A gun!
Oooh.
-Exactly. So, logically...
If... it... weighs... the same as a gun,... it's made of uranium.
-And therefore?
A nuke!
A nuke!...



If someone has already opened a topic with same content, well... I couldn't find it.

[Kosh]

They have destroyed their own credibility almosst completely in my eyes, and this newest failure to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth just strengthens my doubts of ever trusting anything that comes out of that tube of propaganda that used to be the Government of the United States of America...

But many people in America never ask questions. Like that chip that is now in American passports, I had to read about that in the Guardian. Has anyone asked any questions about this? Has there been any contraversy? Nope. American people are sheep that are being led off of a cliff.

[Ford Prefect]

Well, you see, the fact that we don't know whether there are nukes in Iran means that those nukes are simultaneously existent and nonexistent. We have to invade Iran to collapse the superposition of states! I think that's obviously what Congress is getting at.

[Herra Tohtori]

Yeah... but in doing so, they also collapse their own state's superposition...

Schrödinger's Nuke... that's a good one.

[Rictor]

Yeah... but in doing so, they also collapse their own state's superposition...

Well played. All hail Herra Tohtori, master of the pun.

The sad thing is that while the IAEA's problems with Iran's nuclear program are relatively small, technical and isolated, at least according to what I've read, the US has successfully manage to spin that into "Look, the IAEA says that iran is going to nuke Chicago within the next 15 minutes", and a good chunk of the American population has bought it.

Am I right to assume that the push to punish Iran, whether with sanctions or whatever, is viewed with almost universal skepticism over in Europe? I mean for God's sake, they just pulled this same **** not three years ago, and yet there's still people out there, even intelligent ones, who nod their head gravely and start making comparisons to appeasing Hitler in '39.

[Janos]

Yeah... but in doing so, they also collapse their own state's superposition...

Well played. All hail Herra Tohtori, master of the pun.

The sad thing is that while the IAEA's problems with Iran's nuclear program are relatively small, technical and isolated, at least according to what I've read, the US has successfully manage to spin that into "Look, the IAEA says that iran is going to nuke Chicago within the next 15 minutes", and a good chunk of the American population has bought it.

Well, paint us ****ing surprised - I mean this is the first time this administration... oh wait

Am I right to assume that the push to punish Iran, whether with sanctions or whatever, is viewed with almost universal skepticism over in Europe? I mean for God's sake, they just pulled this same **** not three years ago, and yet there's still people out there, even intelligent ones, who nod their head gravely and start making comparisons to appeasing Hitler in '39.

You are actually wrong. Most people think that if it is undeniably found that Iran is actually in breach of NPT and refuses to disarm, then SOMETHING must be done. It's just that no one wants USA to go all gun-ho and ruin everything. We are not very worried about Iran because right now they seem to have beef with USA and, to lesser proportions, Israel.

And those who make the inevitable Hitler comparison should be slapped on a cheek and laughed out of the pub.

[Nuke]

it is simply our time to fall. we will be the instigators of ww3. and we will suffer for it.

[Night Hammer]

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"

[Mefustae]

it is simply our time to fall. we will be the instigators of ww3. and we will suffer for it.

Oh, stop being so dramatic. The Greenhouse Effect will kill us first.

[Janos]

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"

"... but the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the defendant."

Edit: Fixed outrageously stupid typo

[Wobble73]

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"

"... but the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the defendant."

[Nuke]

it is simply our time to fall. we will be the instigators of ww3. and we will suffer for it.

Oh, stop being so dramatic. The Greenhouse Effect will kill us first.

hippie!    :

[Bobboau]

as I've said, I'll let Europe handle this one, go on, show us how it's done.

if you want some help with anything just ask, but you're in charge this time.

[Rictor]

Somehow I doubt your politicians would agree. And anyway, the EU seems to have the same objective, which is preventing sny[/url] nuclear program, peaceful or otherwise, only they favour the carrot over the stick. Personally, I make no difference between one who wants to deprive you of rights with kind words and economic incentives over one who wants to do it with threats and punishment.

[Herra Tohtori]

That's easy!

...if the US hadn't vommitted such a gigantic amount of outrageous screw-ups in the middle east that it's now almost completely unrealistic to even hope for peaceful conditions there during our life span.

What it would demand is:

-Way better standard of living to get those people more educated. And to diminsh the damage that the Western world has inflicted upon those countries; many of the poorest citizens there blame West for the conditions there, and to my shame I must say that they are not entirely wrong in their accusations.

-To achieve better life standarsd and education, secularized, non-corrupt governments must be get into places of the religious authorities currently holding the reigns in too many third world countries.

-To get secular governments into position of power, the level of education must be raised, because uneducated people cling to old traditions, believeing that they are the only real option, and do not vote capable people into power, but instead the religious authorities... despite the fact that they haven't actually made many good things happen to those countries.

So it's kinda vicious circle... To get rid of religious governments you must improve education, and to improve education you should first get rid of the religious authorities as governments.


The single case of Iran is also easily solved (in theory). If it becomes certain in clear terms that they are indeed putting together a nuke, it must be stopped since it would be a proof that Iran is violating the nuclear restriction pact that it has signed. It should be that simple, but there are, naturally, *difficulties* along the path.

It is the way to actually find out whether or not a nuke is brewing that causes most difficulties. Historically (pre-Iraq war Mk.2), the US hasn't actually been really good at this; the UN weapons inpectors SAID that there was no evidence of WMD's in Iraq, yet the US adminstration was *sure* of their existence. And that causes problems for Europe also in the current semi-crisis, so it's actually not "fair" to just say to Europe "okay, you show us how it's done" after the US made such a task exponentially more difficult by miserably failing in gathering OR analyzing intel last time. Or maybe they just lied, I dunno...

Now, IAEA's report has been misquoted and deformed to look like it would say that Iran was developing a nuke, when in fact it did not say so. So now they don't even use their own intel to back up their claims - they instead distort OTHERs' reports so that they would say what they want.

[Janos]

as I've said, I'll let Europe handle this one, go on, show us how it's done.

if you want some help with anything just ask, but you're in charge this time.

which one of us

[Bobboau]

well, I was expecting the lot of you to form something of a commitie, but if one of you want's to just grab power of the situation that's fine as well.

[Nuclear1]

as I've said, I'll let Europe handle this one, go on, show us how it's done.

if you want some help with anything just ask, but you're in charge this time.

which one of us

Any one of you will do fine. It's like I've been saying all along--the European countries should be the ones cleaning up the messes in Africa and the Middle East (excluding Iraq, that's our job, and Lebanon, that's the UN's job) that they made with centuries of imperialism and shoddy boundary drawing.

Not saying the US hasn't done plenty of that, but I can't think of many examples where US-controlled territories or other regions affected by the US have actually spiraled into AIDS epidemics and wanton ethnic genocide as Europe caused the Middle East and Africa to devolve into.

[Flipside]

You're thinking Empirically, not economically. Yes, Europe screwed around in Africa and the Middle East, yes, in some cases we made a complete disaster of it, but the current situation stays as it is because of the trading and employment practices in a lot of countries Europe and America included (as well as, it should be noted, their own government in many cases).

The UK established the Nation of Israel in the Middle East, this much is certainly true, but the problems in the Middle East continue on such a large scale not because of the existence of Israel, but in the fact that the majority of Palestinians are poor, oppressed and living in constant fear. When you're desperate, you'll jump on any cause that comes along, no matter how radical, especially when not only are you being told that Israel are recieving 'better treatment', but see it with your own eyes. Of course, you aren't told the whole story, they don't mention the Embargos and Sanctions that their own parties' Terrorism has caused any more than American politicians would voluntarily discuss Gitmo Bay.

The 'hatred of Israel' is a requirement to be part of one of the few organisations that can provide food and clothing, if being fundamental will get you that, most Palestinians would pay that price just to survive, and once you're in, the Dogma WILL brainwash you.

The weight for that situation, I feel is something we all have to carry.

[vyper]

as I've said, I'll let Europe handle this one, go on, show us how it's done.

if you want some help with anything just ask, but you're in charge this time.

which one of us

Any one of you will do fine. It's like I've been saying all along--the European countries should be the ones cleaning up the messes in Africa and the Middle East (excluding Iraq, that's our job, and Lebanon, that's the UN's job) that they made with centuries of imperialism and shoddy boundary drawing.

Not saying the US hasn't done plenty of that, but I can't think of many examples where US-controlled territories or other regions affected by the US have actually spiraled into AIDS epidemics and wanton ethnic genocide as Europe caused the Middle East and Africa to devolve into.

Indonesia, par example.