[Taristin]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/po/20061014/co_po/museumsgayanimalsupsetchristians

SUMMARY: The National History Museum in Oslo, Norway, fields predictable drama over a historic exhibit, "Against Nature," on the role of same-sex animal pairs.

[Mefustae]

The controversial exhibit opened Thursday featuring photographs of two whales humping and two male giraffes going at it.

Oh, yeah, who could find that offensive?

But seriously, that's actually pretty interesting. Quite a sad commentary on society that obviously slanted beliefs propogated by religion should stunt scientific study in areas such as these. Although, i'm never going to look at a Bonobo the same way again.

[Ford Prefect]

I've been waiting for opponents of homosexuality to explain their way out of this one for a long time.

[Taristin]

Clearly the animals in those photos are just young and desperate for money, and easily taken to commiting sin to survive in this ever increasing-cost-of-living society.

[BlackDove]

Hardly news, we knew this twenty years ago. (<-- note it's a number pulled out of my ass - just put there to illustrate a sense of how old this information actually is, and it's completely inaccurate, yet believable)

Monkeys are actually known to rush through the sex with females but take their long sweet homo erotic time with the males. I guess it's better that way or something.

At any rate, just another stupid argument for the retards to argue.

[Bobboau]

Hardly news, we knew this twenty years ago. (<-- note it's a number pulled out of my ass - just put there to illustrate a sense of how old this information actually is, and it's completely inaccurate, yet believable)

yeah, that is a bit inacurate:
"Greek philosopher Aristotle noted apparent gay behavior among hyenas 2,300 years ago"

[Prophet]

I have witnessed male dogs to "practice" with each other since I was a kid. That doesn't mean they are gay. Just like if a dog has a hard on when he's running after the tennis ball doesn't mean he finds the ball sexually appealing.

The issue has nothing to do with gayness in human society.

[Bobboau]

it doesn't?

[Prophet]

Not that I'm any kind of expert in things gay, no. We don't know exactly why different animals make things that may seem gay to us. Maybe they are confused, maybe a more powerful male likes to remind the other one whos the boss. Whatever. Human sexuality is a complete mess, and I see little connections to animals. So little that using animals in conjuction with an issue as "(insert your preferred word)" as gayness, is not useful.

Monkeys might be an exeption. As some species some species are known to conduct activities that come close to public sex orgies. But your average giraffe and dog and so on, leave them be. Let us wait until we can read their minds so that we really know what the hell are they doing before making them flagbearers of the gay nature.

[Mefustae]

Remember, we're animals ourselves, and you'd be smart to remember that. Granted, the complications of our contorted notions of 'society' undoubtedly influence the issue, but the facts remain; homosexuality is apparently natural. End of story.

That's not to say further research into the topic isn't warranted, but this whole thing is just really to make those wacky religious nutjobs shut the **** up about things they know nothing about. Sure, we all know they won't, but the side of logic needs all the ammo we can get.

[Prophet]

I disagree with you. But since I have no desire to discuss this further, I step off. Good day gentlemen.

[Nuke]

good to see the vikings still have some balls.

Hardly news, we knew this twenty years ago. (<-- note it's a number pulled out of my ass - just put there to illustrate a sense of how old this information actually is, and it's completely inaccurate, yet believable)

yeah, that is a bit inacurate:
"Greek philosopher Aristotle noted apparent gay behavior among hyenas 2,300 years ago"

its also important to know that female hyenas have penises, well sort of. link so its possible Aristotle was in error.

that said ive been saying this for years. my grandma had a couple male desert tortises. they used to have of sex. it was pretty wierd and oddly amusing. unfortunately the butch of the pair was killed by another animal. everyone thought it was a cat or a squirrel, but i always thought they had a domestic dispute. probbebly the smaller turtle wanted to be on top  for a change, so i figure he flipped the larger one, got some, and then left him to the fire ants.

[aldo_14]

Not that I'm any kind of expert in things gay, no. We don't know exactly why different animals make things that may seem gay to us. Maybe they are confused, maybe a more powerful male likes to remind the other one whos the boss. Whatever. Human sexuality is a complete mess, and I see little connections to animals. So little that using animals in conjuction with an issue as "(insert your preferred word)" as gayness, is not useful.

Monkeys might be an exeption. As some species some species are known to conduct activities that come close to public sex orgies. But your average giraffe and dog and so on, leave them be. Let us wait until we can read their minds so that we really know what the hell are they doing before making them flagbearers of the gay nature.

(incidentally, it's 'homosexuality', not 'gayness')

Most animals - including the ones cited here - will have developed a method of sexual competition / sexual selection that doesn't require same-sex rape (which is what it would be as competition).  For example, male giraffes will use their necks to fight over a female (which is believed why the neck evolved, rather than needing height to eat acacia bushes).  Also, er...... 'confused'?

Anyways, the usefulness of animal homosexuality is in illustrating the natural role of non-procreational (i.e. homosexual) sex.  It resoundingly defeats the 'it's not natural' arguement by proving this occurs in nature; and anything which exists in nature has arised as the effect of some evolutionary (social or genetic) cause, a cause which we can expect to find mirrored in human development*.

*in general; although another suggestion is of homosexuality - and other characteristics - as being the side-product of a gene with other early evolutionary benefits, like a moth fluttering towards a light.  This, of course, only applies if there is a genetic cause.

[TrashMan]

I've been waiting for opponents of homosexuality to explain their way out of this one for a long time.

Explain their way out of what?

The fact that it happens in nature changes nothing really.
 A lot of things happen in nature that you wouldn't lwant to mimic... like for instance by some species of spiders the femals eat the males after mating... or bite the head off during the act...

[karajorma]

Explain their way out of what?

Explain their way out of claiming that homosexuality must be wrong because it's not natural.

Fact is that it is natural. They'll need to find another argument and let this one rest now.

[Flipside]

Well, the fact is that Bonobo monkeys, which are closer genetically to humans than even Chimps are one of the most promiscuous and openly bisexual animals in the animal kingdom.

The problem most homophobes have is that fact they think that if they choose to accept homosexuality, that for some reason they would be expected to be homosexual. I know of only one Gay person who ever stated that Hetero's are just Gays in denial, and i pointed out in no uncertain terms that there are a lot of people who accuse Gays of being exactly the opposite.

[aldo_14]

I've been waiting for opponents of homosexuality to explain their way out of this one for a long time.

Explain their way out of what?

The fact that it happens in nature changes nothing really.
 A lot of things happen in nature that you wouldn't lwant to mimic... like for instance by some species of spiders the femals eat the males after mating... or bite the head off during the act...

Doesn't stop it being a natural occurance.  And in the example you give, there's a measurable harm when applied to human mating (hence why it's generally not a good thing).  There's no measurable harm in homosexual sex.

[BlackDove]

But... but... but...

YOU GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111oneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[TrashMan]

Doesn't stop it being a natural occurance.  And in the example you give, there's a measurable harm when applied to human mating (hence why it's generally not a good thing).  There's no measurable harm in homosexual sex.

Mesuraeel harm has nothing do do with it being natural or not.. which is the point of this discussion.

But, let's dwell into this, shall we?

What is "mesurable harm"? And who mesures it? Who defines what is harmfull?

Obviously, the spiders and many other creatues KNOW what will happen but they do it anyway.
So obviously they consider that it is worth it and not harmfull for their species.

You can say - it must be harmfull as soon as a result someone dies!
Well, everyone dies as a result of life. Everything dies, it's just a matter of how and when.
 
so dying while doing something you like isn't exactly what I would call harmfull.. LOL

[Taristin]

And what harm does homosexuality bring?