Author Topic: NTF did good  (Read 11464 times)

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Offline Cobra

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cmon, you KNOW you want an aeolus with you on every escort mission...dont deny it. *nudgenudge*

The Aeolus is ****ing overkill and you know it. :P

Besides, there are only 12 Aeolus-class cruisers in service (before the shivan incursion anyway, which brought it down to 11, and so on).

I'm perfectly happy with a Sobek. Sobeks might not look like much, but they can really kick some ass. ;)
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Polpolion

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cmon, you KNOW you want an aeolus with you on every escort mission...dont deny it. *nudgenudge*

The Aeolus is ****ing overkill and you know it. :P

Besides, there are only 12 Aeolus-class cruisers in service (before the shivan incursion anyway, which brought it down to 11, and so on).

I'm perfectly happy with a Sobek. Sobeks might not look like much, but they can really kick some ass. ;)

The tech room says two dozen, but I think only 13 or so are canonically mentioned. (plus one from the demo, assuming demo = canon)


(and destroyed)


Aeolus needs to be more cost effective.

 

Offline Mars

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The tech room says two dozen, but I think only 13 or so are canonically mentioned. (plus one from the demo, assuming demo = canon)


(and destroyed)


Aeolus needs to be more cost effective.
Wrong, the Adament has prevailed over the Armaros every time I've played the demo, except thrice.

 
peacetime military ftl

Peacetime military only exists to survive the first wave of an attack, anyways.  After that it becomes wartime military.

no, the surviving units become marginally more experienced, those units who were nowhere near the front probably get none of the lessons, I'm going to suggest you read the book "steel my soldiers hearts" it is a very good illustration of this particular phenomena, and it is a quick read

 

Offline Goober5000

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The Sobek isnt supposed to last forever...its pretty much spent fighting off the Moloch and the waves of shivan bombers.
It was a joke.  Laugh. :) Though I did in fact manage to save the Sobek and the entire convoy once.


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cmon, you KNOW you want an aeolus with you on every escort mission...dont deny it. *nudgenudge*
Indeed; the Agrippa is an excellent escort for the Argo during Argonautica.

 

Offline Snail

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Despite the fact it only used Flak guns. ;7

 
Aelous class would be long dead if every time someone on multi played blockade run it actually happened.
Sig nuked! New one coming soon!

 

Offline Snail

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With the same cruisers...?

 
oh yeah...........
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Offline NGTM-1R

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no, the surviving units become marginally more experienced, those units who were nowhere near the front probably get none of the lessons, I'm going to suggest you read the book "steel my soldiers hearts" it is a very good illustration of this particular phenomena, and it is a quick read

Fine, I counterquote back at you Touched With Fire by Eric M. Bergman, An Army at Dawn by , and D-Day by Stephan E. Ambrose.

There's a lot of interesting commentary in D-Day to the point that much of what was accomplished at Juno and Omaha beaches was because the soldiers conducting the assault were mostly inexperienced. Doing the impossible because you don't realize it's impossible does happen.

But more to the point, much depends on the training, and the GTVA has training aids that are functionally indistingushable from reality (TSM anyone?) in addition to regular training manuvers like those seen in your testing of the stealth fighters during your time with the Barracudas. A good training regime can do much more than it's generally credited for. As evidence consider that as universal commentary on experiencing actual combat in the Gulf War, US pilots and armored vehicle crews very nearly all said it did not measure up to what they'd experienced in training, that it was easy compared to a week at Fort Irwin or Nellis AFB.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 
IMO I think the NTF screwed up hardcore, if there wasnt an NTF, knosson would not have brought the shivan incusion #2 into GTVA space, thousands of lives wouldnt have been spent, capella would still exist and i wouldnt have died from nova the 1st time thru(ares was waaay too friggin slow) :P Oh, and while im on the subject of shivans here, anyone know/think they know why they nova'd capella and how they got that many sathanases(hardest word ever)?

maneuverable ? pfffft. Look at the Basilisk or Aeshma (i think thats how its spelt) . I dont know what class of fighters they are (Heavy assault), but they fly like a retarded seagull.

 

Offline wtf_cl0vvn

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Well, if there was no NTF, or Shivans, or Knossos, or Capella, or w/e, then i dont think FS2 would have been quite as exciting eh?  :D

As to why, I quote karajorma and his faq:
"Your guess is as good as mine."



I'd do the welcome beam, but i really dont know how  :rolleyes:
This book is a mirror. When a monkey looks in, no apostle looks out. -Lichtenberg

 

Offline Polpolion

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I'd tell you, but it bugs people when you use it.

 
They get experienced by fighting pirates and overzealous regional govts. in police actions.

thats what i say.
A Pirate is not interesstet to destroy anything. A Pirate wants to get Cargo, pherhaps some kindnapping and smuggel. Nothing more. The Pirate doesn't destroy a captured Freighter. He lets the Frighters Crew alive. If the Crews know they would be killed, they wont cooperate. If there is strong Craft that protects the Freighers the Pirate doesn't attack. He is looking for an other unprotectet tradeingroute.

Fighting a Pirate is never the same then fighting a Shivan. NEVER!

 

Offline aldo_14

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It kills more experienced soldiers than it creates.

Then how did they get experienced?

They get experienced before they get killed.....  fine, then, trained soldiers with some degree of low level experience.  It's not, I think, historically unfounded to suggest long, full-on 'total' wars tend to see attrition forcing the sides into using less and less adept soldiers as manpower and time dwindle.

peacetime military ftl

Peacetime military only exists to survive the first wave of an attack, anyways.  After that it becomes wartime military.

no, the surviving units become marginally more experienced, those units who were nowhere near the front probably get none of the lessons, I'm going to suggest you read the book "steel my soldiers hearts" it is a very good illustration of this particular phenomena, and it is a quick read

I'm afraid you misunderstood my point.  The peacetime army exists to hold the enemy long enough (survive) in order to move the 'country' (or entity) onto a full-on wartime footing, transiting to full mobilisation and the necessary level of social and economic repositioning to actually resist and counter-attack. 

(moreso, isn't "steel my soldiers hearts" about a US division on and after D-Day?  That's scarcely the start of the war - the US war, perhaps, but not the allied war in Europe)

 

Offline wtf_cl0vvn

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They get experienced by fighting pirates and overzealous regional govts. in police actions.

thats what i say.
A Pirate is not interesstet to destroy anything. A Pirate wants to get Cargo, pherhaps some kindnapping and smuggel. Nothing more. The Pirate doesn't destroy a captured Freighter. He lets the Frighters Crew alive. If the Crews know they would be killed, they wont cooperate. If there is strong Craft that protects the Freighers the Pirate doesn't attack. He is looking for an other unprotectet tradeingroute.

Fighting a Pirate is never the same then fighting a Shivan. NEVER!

its not the same, but fighting the pirates, raiding their bases, AND policing any regional conflicts would give the GTVA forces combat experience. That, coupled with rigrous training on simulators and perhaps mock battles or something (i assume they can "neutralize" their guns for that) would keep your forces at a good level of combat readiness.

And when the Shivans show up, you'll be reasonably ready for them. Just make sure that you have an Alpha 1 somewhere in the ranks; that character shielding cant be defeated by any weapon in existence.  :D
This book is a mirror. When a monkey looks in, no apostle looks out. -Lichtenberg

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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They get experienced before they get killed.....  fine, then, trained soldiers with some degree of low level experience.  It's not, I think, historically unfounded to suggest long, full-on 'total' wars tend to see attrition forcing the sides into using less and less adept soldiers as manpower and time dwindle.

This I can agree with to an extent. There is a period after commitment to combat for the first time where effectiveness grows, then it starts to drop off sharply unless the unit is pulled off the line. For WWII the US Army pegged the average cycle at roughly 45 days on the line. However, this is combat fatigue, not the loss of experienced people. Pushed far enough it will become the loss of experienced people when the effectiveness of the unit collapses (which was 90 days according to the study cited above). The law of averages basically ensures that as long as you have a significant number of survivors your number of experienced soldiers will increase.

While it is fair to say this does not appear to be historically borne out by US WWII experience, it must also be pointed out that this problem could be charged to the replacement system in place at that time, which was described in postwar studies as "the numbers racket" and bitterly indicted for its failures both at the replacement depot and in keeping units on the line without rest for much longer than they should have been. The British Army did much better in this particular area. The Wehrmacht's system hasn't apparently been studied much (perhaps the records are lost?), but as any Russian soldier could attest, despite continual defeats since Stalingrad the Germans grew in technical proficiency despite shrinking in numbers.

Much of the commentary about the collapse of the skill level in German forces in WWII misses a key point that rather than a collapse of regular army or Waffen SS units' skills, it was based on the fact that they were encountering a totally new set of troops, the Volksgrenadiers and other ad-hoc creations being new and not of the same calibur.

(moreso, isn't "steel my soldiers hearts" about a US division on and after D-Day?  That's scarcely the start of the war - the US war, perhaps, but not the allied war in Europe)

It is the start of large-scale ground combat for the Western Allies. This is a telling point, actually. The British Army had not committed large numbers of its troops to the Med mainly because of US threats to send all their people to the Pacific if the Brits weren't going to get serious about a cross-Channel invasion, and frankly the Brits hadn't done particularly well up to that point in the war; their major victory at El Alamein was against an outmanned and chronically undersupplied Afrika Corps which had nonetheless driven them back almost to the gates of Alexandria, they surrendered to a numerically inferior Japanese army in Singapore and Malaya, and they hadn't demonstrated much of killer instinct during the pursuit of the Afrika Corps or fighting in Tunisia, Sicily, and Italy. The US Army had not committed a significant fraction of its strength to these same operations either, nor had it performed particularly brilliantly in Operation Torch or Tunisia. It fell to the US Navy to save the landings at Sicily and Anzio when German tanks reached the beaches in both operations. (Good as the Tiger and Panther were, getting hit by a 5" Common round from a naval gun was, and still is, a death sentence to a tank.)

Until D-Day the majority of the troops the Western Allies had were not committed to operations and had no real combat experience. So, it may not have been the start of the war in Europe, but it was the real start of the ground war.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 
its not the same, but fighting the pirates, raiding their bases, AND policing any regional conflicts would give the GTVA forces combat experience. That, coupled with rigrous training on simulators and perhaps mock battles or something (i assume they can "neutralize" their guns for that) would keep your forces at a good level of combat readiness.
I see a problem. This is experience against an enemy with verry limited ships, bases, whatever. I repeat that is no experience again a grown up warmashine. How much Destroyers or Corvettes a normal Pirategrp has? 1? 2? 0?And after capturing/destroying it? Give some Pirates a new capital Ship, so you can hunt them once again?
With this experience you dont know how to stop 10 Destroyers... even not for some hours. The Pirate only wants to kill you if he must. But the Shivan or the Enemy Solider wants to kill you if he can.

Quote
Just make sure that you have an Alpha 1 somewhere in the ranks; that character shielding cant be defeated by any weapon in existence.  :D
:D

 

Offline wtf_cl0vvn

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AND policing any regional conflicts

Im sure that an overzealous government would be pretty well armed.

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I repeat that is no experience again a grown up warmashine

Its not so much that it prepares you completely, but at least you have combat experience; youve been in a firefight before, youve had AF beams pulsing at you, youve had fighters chasing you...etc.
This book is a mirror. When a monkey looks in, no apostle looks out. -Lichtenberg

 
They get experienced by fighting pirates and overzealous regional govts. in police actions.

thats what i say.
A Pirate is not interesstet to destroy anything. A Pirate wants to get Cargo, pherhaps some kindnapping and smuggel. Nothing more. The Pirate doesn't destroy a captured Freighter. He lets the Frighters Crew alive. If the Crews know they would be killed, they wont cooperate. If there is strong Craft that protects the Freighers the Pirate doesn't attack. He is looking for an other unprotectet tradeingroute.

Fighting a Pirate is never the same then fighting a Shivan. NEVER!

its not the same, but fighting the pirates, raiding their bases, AND policing any regional conflicts would give the GTVA forces combat experience. That, coupled with rigrous training on simulators and perhaps mock battles or something (i assume they can "neutralize" their guns for that) would keep your forces at a good level of combat readiness.

And when the Shivans show up, you'll be reasonably ready for them. Just make sure that you have an Alpha 1 somewhere in the ranks; that character shielding cant be defeated by any weapon in existence.  :D


hmmmmmmmmm......... what id we learn from that last barracuda mission? the one with the pegusus?
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