Author Topic: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People  (Read 18943 times)

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Offline Mefustae

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
It might get you bonus points, but if you were  good person, it does not REALLY matter what race, color, nationality or religion you are...
Well, except if you're gay.

 

Offline vyper

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
It might get you bonus points, but if you were  good person, it does not REALLY matter what race, color, nationality or religion you are...
Well, except if you're gay.

:lol:
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
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I'm not sure what you mean here, but judgement is about justice, not necessarily worship.
So it wouldn't matter one jot at the Pearly Gates about whether or not I was Christian when I died?
Pedantically, no.  Practically, yes.

In other words, everybody has sinned, therefore everybody is automatically bound for hell.  Only those covered by Jesus's sacrifice make it into heaven.  This would include Christians (excluding "nominal" or "cultural" Christians).

Now the interesting thing is that God judges everybody based on what they know.  So for instance, a man in a culture isolated from all outside contact, who nevertheless seeks earnestly after God, based on the natural law written on everybody's hearts, would be an excellent candidate for being covered.  The same goes true for anybody who lived before the time of Christ.

On the other hand, if that same man was visited by a missionary and clearly told about Christianity, yet deliberately hardened his heart against it, he would most likely lose his candidacy.  This is because his knowledge of God increased but his faith did not increase accordingly.

I think faith is the deciding factor.  "Without faith it is impossible to please God" (Hebrews 11:6).  You could probably make the case that worship is a facet of faith though.


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Sex exists because of a 'marital bond', surely; because clearly mutual attraction is a necessity prior to consensual intercourse (note; not including prositution in this).  What exactly does sex add beyond a swapping of - potentially - bodily fluids?

I mean, I'm not a fan of one night stands and I believe sex is worthless unless it's with someone you genuinely care about, but i'm not sure there's anything there which automatically ramps up a relationship 'state'.  Certainly it's a bonding excercise, but also one which requires a strenghtening of a relationship beforehand.
Sex creates a physical connection by definition.  It also, according to Biblical theology, creates a spiritual connection.  Ideally, and usually, it creates an emotional connection, but this has no affect on the other two.

Look at the Old Testament laws regarding rape.  If a man rapes a virgin, he is required to take her as a wife.  On the other hand, if a man rapes somebody else's wife, he is guilty of adultery.  This makes little sense unless rape is actually an act of marriage.  And rape is only an act of marriage because sex is.


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Incidentally, apparently some religions - well, Buddhism at least - include opinions on artificial methods of reproduction.  Also, surely an omniprescent god would at least hint on these things, I mean it's not like the Bible was due to be sent back to the copywriters every century, is it?
That's like saying "surely on omniscient God would hint about stem cell research".  Well, it's never mentioned in the Bible, but that's probably because it would have been irrelevant during the vast majority of human history.  On the other hand, Christians can form reasonable conclusions based on established theology, exegesis, and (most importantly) prayer.

Now I'm fairly certain that no major Christian denomination prohibits assisted fertilization, for example; but again, sex is the defining marital event, not reproduction.  Old Testament laws on sex do not say "if a man sires a child with..." but rather "if a man has sexual relations with...".


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Why care?  Is god subject to human emotions of want, now?
What do you mean, "subject to"?  God is the origin of human emotions.  Happiness, sadness, joy, anger, jealousy, pride, humility, love, grief, satisfaction, etc.  About the only emotion that God does not have is fear.


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Genocide, you mean.  And it failed.  D'oh.
Yeah, well, the Israelites had a terrible track record of completely following God's commands. :)


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So they were being punished for being different.  Wow, we've never seen that in history before.......
No, they were punished on God's authority, for breaking God's laws.

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
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Pedantically, no.  Practically, yes.

In other words, everybody has sinned, therefore everybody is automatically bound for hell.  Only those covered by Jesus's sacrifice make it into heaven.  This would include Christians (excluding "nominal" or "cultural" Christians).

Now the interesting thing is that God judges everybody based on what they know.  So for instance, a man in a culture isolated from all outside contact, who nevertheless seeks earnestly after God, based on the natural law written on everybody's hearts, would be an excellent candidate for being covered.  The same goes true for anybody who lived before the time of Christ.

On the other hand, if that same man was visited by a missionary and clearly told about Christianity, yet deliberately hardened his heart against it, he would most likely lose his candidacy.  This is because his knowledge of God increased but his faith did not increase accordingly.

I think faith is the deciding factor.  "Without faith it is impossible to please God" (Hebrews 11:6).  You could probably make the case that worship is a facet of faith though.

So if I'm an aetheist (which, shockingly, I am), yet a perfectly good person, God effectively hates me?

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Sex creates a physical connection by definition.  It also, according to Biblical theology, creates a spiritual connection.  Ideally, and usually, it creates an emotional connection, but this has no affect on the other two.

Look at the Old Testament laws regarding rape.  If a man rapes a virgin, he is required to take her as a wife.  On the other hand, if a man rapes somebody else's wife, he is guilty of adultery.  This makes little sense unless rape is actually an act of marriage.  And rape is only an act of marriage because sex is.

You're kidding me - rape must be followed by marriage?  Isn't that a convent to torture the victim by reminding them of their abuse?  Does the bible understand consensual and non consensual sex?

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That's like saying "surely on omniscient God would hint about stem cell research".  Well, it's never mentioned in the Bible, but that's probably because it would have been irrelevant during the vast majority of human history.  On the other hand, Christians can form reasonable conclusions based on established theology, exegesis, and (most importantly) prayer.

Now I'm fairly certain that no major Christian denomination prohibits assisted fertilization, for example; but again, sex is the defining marital event, not reproduction.  Old Testament laws on sex do not say "if a man sires a child with..." but rather "if a man has sexual relations with...".

Um.... an omniscent God would see all human history, not start to end.  Unless you're anticipating the end of the planet in, ooh, a century or so it'd seem a perfectly fair thing to hint.  We all know, after all, how misleading personal interpretation - the existance of so many churches arguing over the same bloody book indicates that pretty well IMO.

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What do you mean, "subject to"?  God is the origin of human emotions.  Happiness, sadness, joy, anger, jealousy, pride, humility, love, grief, satisfaction, etc.  About the only emotion that God does not have is fear.

So God is needy?  It's nice to have a vindictive, egotistic person with their finger on the trigger.

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No, they were punished on God's authority, for breaking God's laws.

For not being Christian.  What - and this is an honest question - had God done for them anyways?  What laws did they break?  Who told them of these laws, and what case was made?  Since when has breaking religious laws been justification for collective genocide, anyways (I'm sure you wouldn't suggest wiping out all Muslims, or Sikhs, or Buddhists, etC)?

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
For not being Christian.  What - and this is an honest question - had God done for them anyways?  What laws did they break?  Who told them of these laws, and what case was made?  Since when has breaking religious laws been justification for collective genocide, anyways (I'm sure you wouldn't suggest wiping out all Muslims, or Sikhs, or Buddhists, etC)?
Given that the God of the Old Testament was genocidal, unfair, unjust, vindicive and racist; what exactly do you expect the guy to wish upon non-believers? Baskets of scented candles!?

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
I figured this would be the best place to post my "Hell is awesome" theory.

Ok, so how do you get to Heaven? By being a good Christian. Which means no sex, no drugs, no violence, no partying, no nothing. How do you go to Hell? By having lots of sex, drugs, partying, mosh pits, etc. So where do you think all the fun parties and stuff happen? In Hell! In Heaven, you have none of that, because all of it is a "sin" - so why would you want to go there.

Thus, in conclusion, "Hell is awesome". You don't see any first person shooters set in heaven, do you? ;)

 

Offline Wobble73

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
:Homer voice: The holy bible, it's the pranksters bible son! :/Homer voice:

 :lol:
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
For not being Christian.  What - and this is an honest question - had God done for them anyways?  What laws did they break?  Who told them of these laws, and what case was made?  Since when has breaking religious laws been justification for collective genocide, anyways (I'm sure you wouldn't suggest wiping out all Muslims, or Sikhs, or Buddhists, etC)?
Given that the God of the Old Testament was genocidal, unfair, unjust, vindicive and racist; what exactly do you expect the guy to wish upon non-believers? Baskets of scented candles!?

That's largely why I'm aetheist, really.  Although, to be fair, the aetheism bit is primarily down to being exposed to the judgemental, hypocritical nature of Abrahamite religion rather than all religion. 

There's nothing quite like reading the bible to make me think "Crikey, God's one total bastard, isn't he?".

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
Well, the New Testament God isn't so bad. Sure, he's still completely up himself; talking of 'inheriting the universe' or some such bollocks, but he certainly straightened himself out. He is supposed to be the same God as in the Old Testament, right? I mean, there's wasn't some cosmic switchery-doo between the two Testaments that we mortals missed while we were in the can, was there?

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
Well, the New Testament God isn't so bad. Sure, he's still completely up himself; talking of 'inheriting the universe' or some such bollocks, but he certainly straightened himself out. He is supposed to be the same God as in the Old Testament, right? I mean, there's wasn't some cosmic switchery-doo between the two Testaments that we mortals missed while we were in the can, was there?

Maybe he went to AA.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
It might get you bonus points, but if you were  good person, it does not REALLY matter what race, color, nationality or religion you are...
Well, except if you're gay.

Not necesarily... Depends on what person you are and how you live your life.

AS for other religions - someone born in a jewish/islamic/christianic family will in 99,9% cases take on the religion of his parents.
 All of them belive in a single God (just call him by a different name and worship him differently) As long as a person is good and just he is a prime candidate for Heaven..
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
Almost forgot, there is a big difference betwene the two testaments- one must take into the account the time and specific geopolitical and historical circumstances sorroundgin the writing of both and the mental state of humanity.

The old testament was passed down like a story for generation before being written down (and thus is probably  coloured and influnced by the people who carried it over).  It's also not far fetched that some powerfull religious leders of that time put some views of their own in there (for instance, the meat thing).
Regardless, there is also the problem of translating and interpreting the Bible..

That's why I'm sticking to hte New Testament a lot more than hte old one.. and that's wh I leave tje interpretation to people more knowledgable (ion history, language nad theology) than I.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
It might get you bonus points, but if you were  good person, it does not REALLY matter what race, color, nationality or religion you are...
Well, except if you're gay.

Not necesarily... Depends on what person you are and how you live your life.

AS for other religions - someone born in a jewish/islamic/christianic family will in 99,9% cases take on the religion of his parents.
 All of them belive in a single God (just call him by a different name and worship him differently) As long as a person is good and just he is a prime candidate for Heaven..

I'd suggest that 99.9% figure to be vastly overinflated, otherwise the church wouldn't be declining so dramatically in 'established christian' countries (at least 15% each year in the UK).

Almost forgot, there is a big difference betwene the two testaments- one must take into the account the time and specific geopolitical and historical circumstances sorroundgin the writing of both and the mental state of humanity.

The old testament was passed down like a story for generation before being written down (and thus is probably  coloured and influnced by the people who carried it over).  It's also not far fetched that some powerfull religious leders of that time put some views of their own in there (for instance, the meat thing).
Regardless, there is also the problem of translating and interpreting the Bible..

That's why I'm sticking to hte New Testament a lot more than hte old one.. and that's wh I leave tje interpretation to people more knowledgable (ion history, language nad theology) than I.


If you're going to adopt the bible as the word of God, then you can't pick and choose which bits are 'coloured and influenced', because then it's simply cherry picking to remove the inconvenient bits (like Genesis).  And you're absolutely right - the catholic church (for example) has a history of modifying via translation to make the bible more palatable, and eventually it's going to become an 'interpretation' rather than literal translation (if not already); in which case it exists, not as the supposed word of god, but as some clerics propaganda....

 
Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
it wasn't god that changed between testaments, it was the people he was talking to

society develops, and even from an athiestic view this can make sense to you, that a more barbaric civilization would interpret things.... differently

god just finally got a voice to cut that second hand bull**** <and then of course he let his buddies write everything down, frustrating>

there are logical reasons for the discontinuity that are not breaking

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
So god changes himself to suit the whims of man?  Not very diefic, in my view.

 
Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
no man changes and thus his perception of god changes


I apoligize for inclarity

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
no man changes and thus his perception of god changes


I apoligize for inclarity

And yet surely a diety with omniscence would present the image that, across all generations, he wished to show?  I mean, the bible is taking about direct commandments from god to kill x and y for not being christian, it strikes me that the intent behind that type of instruction is pretty unequivocal regardless of your social and historical viewpoint.

 

Offline Ace

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
Well, the New Testament God isn't so bad. Sure, he's still completely up himself; talking of 'inheriting the universe' or some such bollocks, but he certainly straightened himself out. He is supposed to be the same God as in the Old Testament, right? I mean, there's wasn't some cosmic switchery-doo between the two Testaments that we mortals missed while we were in the can, was there?

Maybe he went to AA.

Hi, I'm god... I'm a power freak who likes manipulating people...

Hi god.

"So god, what brought you here?"

Well... I realized that turning a woman into a pillar of salt Star Trek: The Original Series style wouldn't be taken seriously.

Ha! Pillar of Salt? At least I do things like tear Phlan out of the sky and surround the Moonsea with a vale of fog! Damn... stupid... aventurers and incompetent Zhents...

"Bane, this isn't about you..."

Hrmm... tearing Jerusalem out of the ground? Haven't thought of that yet. Definately that will show them that the Zoroastrainists are the one true believers of my faith as opposed to these damned Christians, Jews, Muslims who are all going straight to hell. Thanks!

"That's not what we're supposed to be learning here..."
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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
As I hinted at earlier, if one stops at the Bible when examining the Christian God, the result will be an incomplete picture. The Bible is Christianity's founding mythology, but deeper examinations of Christian spirituality come from elsewhere, especially the medieval mystics.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 
Re: The Holy Bible: The Kama Sutra Of Killing People
no man changes and thus his perception of god changes


I apoligize for inclarity

And yet surely a diety with omniscence would present the image that, across all generations, he wished to show?  I mean, the bible is taking about direct commandments from god to kill x and y for not being christian, it strikes me that the intent behind that type of instruction is pretty unequivocal regardless of your social and historical viewpoint.


free will also means the free will to misunderstand, there seem to be a set of lines in the sand in terms of making things obvious to everyone