Author Topic: Fundies say the darndest things  (Read 12123 times)

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Offline Kosh

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Offline karajorma

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
That's like giving a person a bit of candy and telling them they can look at it, but if they eat it, then they're somehow committing some evil act.

Or like giving people a tree and saying they can't eat the fruit.....oh wait.
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Offline Taristin

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
How much you wanna bet Charismatic likes Lesbian porn, but will still go on about the immorality of gays? :rolleyes:

Who the hell doesn't like that? It's only natural..yas men are attracted to women and two women are more of an eye candy than one..no?  ;7

It's natural for a man to think: "Hey! Two potential mates! Let me see if I can get both of them to pleasure eachother, thereby cutting myself out of the equation, while I spill my own genetic makeup on the floor!" ?
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
It does show you to be more homophobic than rational, though.  It's hypocritical - oh, sure, homosexuality is wrong.... unless you can have a swift wank watching it, in which case it's fine by you.

ho·mo·phobe
–noun
a person who fears or hates homosexuals and homosexuality.


Given that I neither hate them (Why the hell should I? I many not like what they are doing, but that's no reason for hate..Besides..it's not like they chose to be gay. They were born that way... wait a sec..why d othey call it a lifestyle choice then? :confused:) nor fear them (being gay is not contagious nor is there any physical danger from them) then your remark about my personality is totaly flawed.


Quote
Evidence of what?  I'm pretty sure there's comprehensive evidence that homosexual (or bisexual) people are human, and that they freely and informedly consent to sex with those of the same sexual orientation, so I'm not sure what more evidence is required.

Did I ever say they weren't human?
Sure, homosexual behaviour isn't physicly harmfull and I bet most of them are nice pople, however I still think that it's just plain wrong (same way I think cursing or smoking is wrong) and not normal (not in the natural sense of natural, since a lot of freaky things go on in nature, including canibalism..brrr)



Oh, another thing...
Quote
The most vocal types of nutcase seem to be fundamentalist christians.
Maby..maby not.
Nitcases and fanatics come in all shapes and sizes, and contrary to popular belief, religious ones aren't necesarily the worst. You have your ideology nucases - (think nacism, communism, faschism, the commi-witchtunt in the US or even liberalism).
Humans can be fanatical and willing to kill over ANYTHING.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
It does show you to be more homophobic than rational, though.  It's hypocritical - oh, sure, homosexuality is wrong.... unless you can have a swift wank watching it, in which case it's fine by you.

ho·mo·phobe
–noun
a person who fears or hates homosexuals and homosexuality.


Given that I neither hate them (Why the hell should I? I many not like what they are doing, but that's no reason for hate..Besides..it's not like they chose to be gay. They were born that way... wait a sec..why d othey call it a lifestyle choice then? :confused:) nor fear them (being gay is not contagious nor is there any physical danger from them) then your remark about my personality is totaly flawed.

It's pretty obvious you hate their lifestyle (see below)

Quote
Evidence of what?  I'm pretty sure there's comprehensive evidence that homosexual (or bisexual) people are human, and that they freely and informedly consent to sex with those of the same sexual orientation, so I'm not sure what more evidence is required.

Did I ever say they weren't human?
Sure, homosexual behaviour isn't physicly harmfull and I bet most of them are nice pople, however I still think that it's just plain wrong (same way I think cursing or smoking is wrong) and not normal (not in the natural sense of natural, since a lot of freaky things go on in nature, including canibalism..brrr)

So it's wrong in absolutely no rational way you can define.  And you dislike it.  Presumably you'd like to remove, abolish it - because why would you want keep something you dislike?

Ergo, hate; an irrational dislike of something you wish to remove.

More importantly, the only label worth noting is 'human'.  If you accept homosexuals (or bisexuals) are human, then you have to accept their choice (and it's of no matter whether sexual orientation is genetic or environmental) to live in the way they live, or else you become hypocritical every time you make a choice about your life.  The only factor that matters in whether something is right or wrong is harm; do homosexuals harm themselves, others, or even the species in any way?

(moreso, normality is itself an eye of the beholder type thing; the product of rather irrational human predilictions; plus, how do you qualify what is normal anyways?)

Oh, another thing...
Quote
The most vocal types of nutcase seem to be fundamentalist christians.
Maby..maby not.
Nitcases and fanatics come in all shapes and sizes, and contrary to popular belief, religious ones aren't necesarily the worst. You have your ideology nucases - (think nacism, communism, faschism, the commi-witchtunt in the US or even liberalism).
Humans can be fanatical and willing to kill over ANYTHING.

I'm not denying human stupidity, but it's hard to find a group both as large and as united in their lunacy as the religious fundamentalists, though.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
It does show you to be more homophobic than rational, though.  It's hypocritical - oh, sure, homosexuality is wrong.... unless you can have a swift wank watching it, in which case it's fine by you.

ho·mo·phobe
It's pretty obvious you hate their lifestyle (see below)

Dislike is a more accurate word. If "something"fobia is defined by not supporting something or disliking it, then every single person in the world suffers from at least 1000 fobias...


Quote
Did I ever say they weren't human?
Sure, homosexual behaviour isn't physicly harmfull and I bet most of them are nice pople, however I still think that it's just plain wrong (same way I think cursing or smoking is wrong) and not normal (not in the natural sense of natural, since a lot of freaky things go on in nature, including canibalism..brrr)

So it's wrong in absolutely no rational way you can define.  And you dislike it.  Presumably you'd like to remove, abolish it - because why would you want keep something you dislike?

Ergo, hate; an irrational dislike of something you wish to remove.

Define rational and irrational. Define moral or immoral.
And there's the problem - wether you admit or not a human is not a fully rational beain and even agreeing on what is rational is very much impossible. You , I, everyone we probably sound perfectly rational to ourselves. The question is how do we sound to others.

For me the problem of homosexuality is that is simply isn't moral (yes, in my view) and that it's basicly a defect.. a non-harmfull one but still a defect.
Just tell me that you wouldn't like it more that your son/doughter is hetero than homo? (even a little)

Quote
Nitcases and fanatics come in all shapes and sizes, and contrary to popular belief, religious ones aren't necesarily the worst. You have your ideology nucases - (think nacism, communism, faschism, the commi-witchtunt in the US or even liberalism).
Humans can be fanatical and willing to kill over ANYTHING.

I'm not denying human stupidity, but it's hard to find a group both as large and as united in their lunacy as the religious fundamentalists, though.

I can think of a few that come close... :lol: (not refering to you...or am I?)
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Offline KappaWing

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
Here I go *takes breath*

It does show you to be more homophobic than rational, though.  It's hypocritical - oh, sure, homosexuality is wrong.... unless you can have a swift wank watching it, in which case it's fine by you.

ho·mo·phobe
It's pretty obvious you hate their lifestyle (see below)

Dislike is a more accurate word. If "something"fobia is defined by not supporting something or disliking it, then every single person in the world suffers from at least 1000 fobias...


Quote
Did I ever say they weren't human?
Sure, homosexual behaviour isn't physicly harmfull and I bet most of them are nice pople, however I still think that it's just plain wrong (same way I think cursing or smoking is wrong) and not normal (not in the natural sense of natural, since a lot of freaky things go on in nature, including canibalism..brrr)

So it's wrong in absolutely no rational way you can define.  And you dislike it.  Presumably you'd like to remove, abolish it - because why would you want keep something you dislike?

Ergo, hate; an irrational dislike of something you wish to remove.

Define rational and irrational. Define moral or immoral.


Rational and Irrational are terms used to describe something's conformity to logic. If there is no logic connection between two things that are claimed to be connected, then the effect is irrationality. I think. Your "just plain wrong" argument does not stem from anything other than personal dislike, which as aldo points out, is hate.

Moral and Immoral are relative terms IMHO. They cannot be "defined" since their meaning is in the eye of the beholder.


And there's the problem - wether you admit or not a human is not a fully rational beain and even agreeing on what is rational is very much impossible. You , I, everyone we probably sound perfectly rational to ourselves. The question is how do we sound to others.

Morality is relative, logic is not. rationality is directly tied to logic, and logic does not change depending on one's perspective.

For me the problem of homosexuality is that is simply isn't moral (yes, in my view) and that it's basicly a defect.. a non-harmfull one but still a defect.
Just tell me that you wouldn't like it more that your son/doughter is hetero than homo? (even a little)

My mother, for one, is proud to have a homosexual son.

Quote
Nitcases and fanatics come in all shapes and sizes, and contrary to popular belief, religious ones aren't necesarily the worst. You have your ideology nucases - (think nacism, communism, faschism, the commi-witchtunt in the US or even liberalism).
Humans can be fanatical and willing to kill over ANYTHING.

I'm not denying human stupidity, but it's hard to find a group both as large and as united in their lunacy as the religious fundamentalists, though.

I can think of a few that come close... :lol: (not refering to you...or am I?)

Hmmm... Lunacy. Kaz*cough*  :lol:

(If you're reading this, know that I say this because I think you're awesome Kaz.  :))
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
Logical connection comes from having the right premisess, making the right assumptions and getting the right conclusions.
-----

People don't generaly have the same premises, and what is logical is also partially subjectable to debate in many cases. This is not math after all.
-----

And dislike does not equal hate. Or maby it does for you?

---
Blood is blood. I would be probably be proud of my son/daughter regardless if it was gay or not. That was not the question I asked.



And we all like Kaz.... :lol:

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Offline Turey

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
Just tell me that you wouldn't like it more that your son/doughter is hetero than homo? (even a little)

Only in the fact that I'd love grandchildren to spoil (Though advances in Reproductive "Assistance" make even this possible for Homosexuals as well as Heterosexuals). However, since I'm not likely to ever get a chance to have kids, this is a moot point.  :nod:
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Offline Mefustae

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
However, since I'm not likely to ever get a chance to have kids, this is a moot point.  :nod:
Why's that? Sterility caused by prolonged proximity to high-scale nuclear weapons testing? Lose your genitals in an unfortunate smelting accident? Just plain ugly? Tell me if i'm getting warmer...

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
Dislike is a more accurate word. If "something"fobia is defined by not supporting something or disliking it, then every single person in the world suffers from at least 1000 fobias...

You think it's immoral.  You you don't really mind immorality, then?  It's not too bad?

In any case;
homophobia
# prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality

I'd say calling someone morally wrong 'just because' is prejudice.

Quote
So it's wrong in absolutely no rational way you can define.  And you dislike it.  Presumably you'd like to remove, abolish it - because why would you want keep something you dislike?

Ergo, hate; an irrational dislike of something you wish to remove.

Define rational and irrational. Define moral or immoral.
And there's the problem - wether you admit or not a human is not a fully rational beain and even agreeing on what is rational is very much impossible. You , I, everyone we probably sound perfectly rational to ourselves. The question is how do we sound to others.[/quote]

Actually, rational is very easy to define.  You need some form of reasoning beyond going 'ohmygodohmygod it's wrong!' and running around waving your hands in the air.

rational
# consistent with or based on or using reason; "rational behavior"; "a process of rational inference"; "rational thought"
# intellectual: of or associated with or requiring the use of the mind; "intellectual problems"; "the triumph of the rational over the animal side of man"
# having its source in or being guided by the intellect (distinguished from experience or emotion); "a rational analysis"

irrational
# not consistent with or using reason; "irrational fears"; "irrational animals"

(I'd say say something without any concrete or intellectual reasoning is irrational)

As for moral; well, it may be a societal and personal choice, but your espousing of morality becomes a lot stronger and a lot more convincing if it has some form of basic logic or common sense to it.  That's how we distinguish between the people calling slavery moral (for example) and immoral - the logical reasoning for each view.

Quote
For me the problem of homosexuality is that is simply isn't moral (yes, in my view) and that it's basicly a defect.. a non-harmfull one but still a defect.
Just tell me that you wouldn't like it more that your son/doughter is hetero than homo? (even a little)

I wouldn't have any objection to whatever choice he/she make (for the sake of argument assuming it's not genetic and environmental/upbringing, I'd support them as a parent should support their children.

To me, bigotry against a group based on their (consensual of course) sexual activity is immoral. 

And what the hell is a 'non harmful defect'?  Hell, my short-sightedness is a 'defect', and it's a hell of a lot more harmful than homosexuality; so why isn't that morally wrong?  (or, in personality terms, I'm an introverted type personality - is that morally wrong?  it's certainly a 'non harmful defect', whatever the **** that means)

Quote
Quote
I'm not denying human stupidity, but it's hard to find a group both as large and as united in their lunacy as the religious fundamentalists, though.

I can think of a few that come close... :lol: (not refering to you...or am I?)

If you are, then I believe there would be a common - shall we say normal - consensus that you are an idiot.  But I'm sure you're not referring to me, because it'd be rather unjustifiable.

I'm curious why you take such offense to the concept; do you consider yourself a religious fundamentalist?  (perhaps because you share some of the more odious views?)

 

Offline KappaWing

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
Logical connection comes from having the right premisess, making the right assumptions and getting the right conclusions.
-----
k

People don't generaly have the same premises, and what is logical is also partially subjectable to debate in many cases. This is not math after all.
-----
There are a certain set of premises that can support any given logical conclusion. Logic as a system itself is not really "debatabe", it has rules and fallacies and whatnot that apply in any situation.

And dislike does not equal hate. Or maby it does for you?

No it does not, but irrational dislike does. That was kind of the point.

---
Blood is blood. I would be probably be proud of my son/daughter regardless if it was gay or not. That was not the question I asked.

Well in order to be proud of something in my book, especially a person, they must be doing whatever i like best, or something equivalent. (thats how its used in our family) The point is that many parents consider heterosexuality & homosexuality to be equal in preference, and not a defect. That said, "proud" is a word I don't use very often.



And we all like Kaz.... :lol:


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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
Good times....good times.

edit: I think that if Kazan were still around, he would literally implode with rage, forming  smaller, denser White Dwarf Kazan.

i believe the concept you are looking for is "Supernova"

 

Offline WeatherOp

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
Good times....good times.

edit: I think that if Kazan were still around, he would literally implode with rage, forming  smaller, denser White Dwarf Kazan.

i believe the concept you are looking for is "Supernova"

Nah, he'd be against that,

Super would be a fascist word, and nova is a star that increases in output for a while then fades back to normal, he'd think you are calling him a hothead, so in-turn you'd be a fascist. :p

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things


Nah, he'd be against that,

Super would be a fascist word, and nova is a star that increases in output for a while then fades back to normal, he'd think you are calling him a hothead, so in-turn you'd be a fascist. :p



from the amount of time i lurked here before registering and just read... i think i have a fairly good impression of our exciteable and absent forumite.. and i don't understand how the word "super" would be "a fascist word", that doesn't sound like something he would say.

he seems to appropriately apply the term fascist to a form of totalitarian government in which corporate power is combined with government power

 

Offline WeatherOp

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things


Nah, he'd be against that,

Super would be a fascist word, and nova is a star that increases in output for a while then fades back to normal, he'd think you are calling him a hothead, so in-turn you'd be a fascist. :p



from the amount of time i lurked here before registering and just read... i think i have a fairly good impression of our exciteable and absent forumite.. and i don't understand how the word "super" would be "a fascist word", that doesn't sound like something he would say.

he seems to appropriately apply the term fascist to a form of totalitarian government in which corporate power is combined with government power

Then apparently, you haven't been around long enough. :p
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Offline Mars

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
The only time I've seen anyone as militant as Kazan in his beliefs  was at one of the large fundi churches we have on the outskirts of the Denver Metro area.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
Can we stop with the comments about Kazan. Monkey'd or not he's still a member of the board.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Fundies say the darndest things
There are a certain set of premises that can support any given logical conclusion. Logic as a system itself is not really "debatabe", it has rules and fallacies and whatnot that apply in any situation.[/color]

In general yes. But to come to correct xonclusion you have to have perfect and complete knowledge.which in general we have not. And let's not forget that many thing as difficult to categorize or enumerate...

People often don't agree on what is rational..even in simple thing like Chess (was that a rational move? It was for me since I know what I'll do next, I have some plan. For you it seems stupid since oyu have your own plan and ideas to defeat me. But then Kasparov comes, laugss at both of our sorry asses and defets us in 3 turns...

Quote
No it does not, but irrational dislike does. That was kind of the point.
No, "irrational" dislike is just irational dislike..nothing more, nothing less. It can't be hate since you have rational and irrational hate...and that would mean that irrational hate is irrational irrational dislike??? Or rational hate is rational irrational dislike?

Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!