Author Topic: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!  (Read 4544 times)

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Offline Snail

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
What about the EAD Lindos? ;7

Only one stage needed:

4 or 5 Lindos jump in, all at once (if they can fit through the node) and fire all weapons simultaneously. Then they go around doing the same to every GTVA outpost, more ships coming in through the node at the time, spreading into packs and jumping every base in the system... That's probably how the EA wiped out GTVA defenses at the beginning of the war.

 

Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
From what we've seen of GTVA tactics, they seem to consist of a couple of things and a couple of things only:

1) Jump in at a node, WOMG (not sure if I spelled that right) blow the defenders to tiny bits with the questionable advantage of a surprise attack.
2) Blockade a node, sit there and destroy the oncoming losers with the questionable advantage of the defender.
3) Attack huge ships with a couple of small ships, a bomber wing, and Alpha 1.  :rolleyes:

This is not sound strategy. Once a node is captured, ships start coming through and do what? They jump to nodes, to capture them, (IIRC not something we see very often) they jump to installations, and blow them up, they form a group for self-defense, or they pull 1), 2), or 3) ( the most likely). In every case, strategy is limited to "we're the GTVA, let's use our superior willpower and blow them away with sheer spirit! TALLY-HO!" The entire reason your side wins is because you're on it, defending allied capships from bomber wings. That's the entire strategic advantage. Neither side is significantly better equipped. Neither side uses any strategy of any sort, except perhaps in Feint! Parry! Riposte! and such.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
Defenders definately have the advantage - think of it as a trench war. The node is a tigh spot - the only road in our out.

you can't send all of your ships in at the same time, but the enemy can have his ready on the other side of the node. You can even take advantage of the beam cannon placment on ships to decrease the enemy efectivness.
Pull all your ships to the left side of the node - when a enemy Orion/Hecate/deimos jumps in, it will only be able to use a paortion of it's firepower (cannons on it's right), but the concetrated firepower from your side would be devastating, to say the least.

Let's not forget static defenses such as sentry guns and RBC's + the fact that the defender can have his whole fighter complement in the air and waiting, while the attacker cannot (inter-system jumps drives are not standard issue).

Of course, with meson warheads clustering so close to a node becomes questionable, but the advantage is still on the defenders side.
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Offline Dysko

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
Let's not forget static defenses such as sentry guns and RBC's
*cough* Maginot Line *cough*
You are right, inter-system drives for fighters are not a standard issue, but anyway some fighters should have them. You can send these fighters ahead of the incoming fleet to take out the static defenses.

The real defense system is putting a Deimos in front of the node, and let all enemy warships collide with it. It will work until enemy fighters take out the coffee machine :lol:
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Offline Mobius

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
What about the EAD Lindos? ;7

Only one stage needed:

4 or 5 Lindos jump in, all at once (if they can fit through the node) and fire all weapons simultaneously. Then they go around doing the same to every GTVA outpost, more ships coming in through the node at the time, spreading into packs and jumping every base in the system... That's probably how the EA wiped out GTVA defenses at the beginning of the war.

That's the tactic used against the Gigas :lol:

No, seriously, the EA will never risk the loss of so many advanced destroyers...


Let's not forget static defenses such as sentry guns and RBC's
*cough* Maginot Line *cough*
You are right, inter-system drives for fighters are not a standard issue, but anyway some fighters should have them. You can send these fighters ahead of the incoming fleet to take out the static defenses.

You actually forget that there's an intense fire barrage. We have all experienced this before, in at least a couple of campaigns. A small number of sentries, fighters and warships are enough to stop an attack.

The real defense system is putting a Deimos in front of the node, and let all enemy warships collide with it. It will work until enemy fighters take out the coffee machine :lol:

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Offline Bob-san

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
In terms that would work; it would require a Destroyer and the entire fighter compliment, at a minimum.

Wave 1: Pegasus fighters scout a jump node while there is a suspected enemy capship to come through the node
Wave 2: A good number of Ulysses (24) jump in within a minute of initial sightings of the enemy; they use high maneuverability and speed to gain superiority and start to disarm and disable the capship.
Wave 3: 16 Myrmidon jump in with one Helios torpedo, all start to divebomb the capship's engines, then they join with the Ulysses in disabling and disarming. After that, they leave the comm system and some radar dishes up-and-running so they can trap the enemy.
Wave 4: All fighters in the area return to base, a few Pegasus return to watch the trap

That way, you disable an enemy near a jump node, beaconing the enemy to rescue the "big guns". If they come through, the trap is sprung again and even more damage is incurred.


That's not quite blitzkrieg but its a good adaption of the tactic for space and in the FS universe. It incapacitates the enemy's morale and attempts to force a move to the trap.

Eh forget about Helios then; just arm the Myrmidon with Stiletto IIs and Tornados. Add into Wave 3 about 2 wings of bombers loaded out with Cyclopse. Once the capship is disabled and the hard parts are taken out, jump out bombers and let the Fighters make a diversion.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
FYI: FTW=For The Win
:D

 

Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
FYI: FYI=For Your Information
:D
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 10:12:30 pm by Agent_Koopa »
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
actualy one other tactic used on the batle field toghether wiht the blitz tactic was the pince movement (sp?) which would be used to encircle the enemy and beat him into submission. However all of these have to done really fast so that the enemy can not amount any decent defence against you once you broke through the front lines. Also this pincer movement would also ensure that he enemy can not pull his ships out or bring in reinforcement o suplyes. and we all know that a destroyer fo all of its fisghters/bommbers can run out of them eally fast in an intense battle whre he is required to send wing after wing of fighters and bommbers. Wih no long term effect because he wings would get shot down fast ,they would just delay the inevitable. For example if you boke into a sistem you would quikly start searches all over the sistem fo the enemy and would move fast to secure any other jump node out of the sistem. This way even if the enemy decides to move for the way out of the battle field it would be almost imposible for him to get out fast enough in order to avoid taking serious damage if not to be anihalated by your forces. remember he wil most definetly have his forces scatered across the sistem in order prevent just such an acion by you.

However because you are concentrang on cuing out his escape routes and traping him you also have at least equal amount of forces to him a any given jump node .
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Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
actualy one other tactic used on the batle field toghether wiht the blitz tactic was the pince movement (sp?) which would be used to encircle the enemy and beat him into submission. However all of these have to done really fast so that the enemy can not amount any decent defence against you once you broke through the front lines. Also this pincer movement would also ensure that he enemy can not pull his ships out or bring in reinforcement o suplyes. and we all know that a destroyer fo all of its fisghters/bommbers can run out of them eally fast in an intense battle whre he is required to send wing after wing of fighters and bommbers. Wih no long term effect because he wings would get shot down fast ,they would just delay the inevitable. For example if you boke into a sistem you would quikly start searches all over the sistem fo the enemy and would move fast to secure any other jump node out of the sistem. This way even if the enemy decides to move for the way out of the battle field it would be almost imposible for him to get out fast enough in order to avoid taking serious damage if not to be anihalated by your forces. remember he wil most definetly have his forces scatered across the sistem in order prevent just such an acion by you.

However because you are concentrang on cuing out his escape routes and traping him you also have at least equal amount of forces to him a any given jump node .

You can't use a pincer movement in 3D space, where the surrounded forces can simply vanish, given sufficient room. Oh, you're talking about in a system. Well, obviously the main objective is to secure jump points, you're right. But once you've nailed down all the exits, cleaning everyone out should not be a difficult task at all.

The thing is, FreeSpace talks about "gaining ground" when you can jump thousands of kilometers in seconds, but whatever.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
You can't use a pincer movement in 3D space, where the surrounded forces can simply vanish, given sufficient room. Oh, you're talking about in a system. Well, obviously the main objective is to secure jump points, you're right. But once you've nailed down all the exits, cleaning everyone out should not be a difficult task at all.

The thing is, FreeSpace talks about "gaining ground" when you can jump thousands of kilometers in seconds, but whatever.

Wasn't there a Star Trek episode about 3D movement in space combat strategy?  (Kirk vs. Khan, IIRC.)

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
The hard fact remain that the enemy can have 2 destroyed behin the node wiht ALL of their fighters up in the air (260-300 of them). The few fighters you can equip with inter-system jumpd drives will no way be enough to break trough.

what you could do (assuming that the "capship-jump-field-can-take-along-a-few-nearby-fighters" theory is correct) it to jump in with a destroyer with as much fighters/bombers as possible, and then follow that with everything else you got. Hopefully, you can catch the enemy off-guard and launch a volley of torpedos before they can pawn your bombers.

Ther's also the problem of node blockage (ship that just jumped in has to move to clear the way for the next one). Taht's why the bigegst ships should jump in first - they get far enough from the node for smalelr ships like cruisers to jump in immediately after them.
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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
what i meant was the ships that could perform similar to an iceni class (i want NO comment on this, im just makin a point) would be sent in first, and after securing the node, would move to secure all other nodes  while the reast of the fleet systematicly clears out the system.
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Offline Snail

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
No, seriously, the EA will never risk the loss of so many advanced destroyers...

The plan would be to wipe out enemy defenses so quickly they have no chance to fight back. They wouldn't bother with the little pockets, they'd just wipe out the main targets. Once they're done, an Auriga (carrier) or a Tereus (carrier destroyer) jumps in to wipe out the rest of the resistance. This way, they'd be able to take a lot in the first attack, the main thing is destroying the small pockets of resistance that may cause problems for you later.

 

Offline Vretsu

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
I guess blitzing would work if it wasn't in the enemy's best interests to withdraw (IE, attempting to hold a critical position near a planet, or something). Otherwise, it's pretty much useless, as others have said.

 
Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
The thing is, FreeSpace talks about "gaining ground" when you can jump thousands of kilometers in seconds, but whatever.

As far as I can tell from the command briefs, the only things being fought over were the planets and jump nodes. Have you ever seen an FS reference to "gaining ground"?

You can't use a pincer movement in 3D space, where the surrounded forces can simply vanish

Another FreeSpace novelty. Think back to the FS1 mission where you kill the Eva. You stand of 1,000 meters or so, kill the fighters, kill the weapons subsys, then lob bombs at the Eva for 10 minutes. Why didn't the Eva just jump out? Why do capships always stand there and wait to get killed? Why do transports always have to follow waypoints before jumping out?

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
No, seriously, the EA will never risk the loss of so many advanced destroyers...

The plan would be to wipe out enemy defenses so quickly they have no chance to fight back. They wouldn't bother with the little pockets, they'd just wipe out the main targets. Once they're done, an Auriga (carrier) or a Tereus (carrier destroyer) jumps in to wipe out the rest of the resistance. This way, they'd be able to take a lot in the first attack, the main thing is destroying the small pockets of resistance that may cause problems for you later.

The defending force in FS2 has a huge advantage - in numbers AND available firepower...AND the speed wiht which you can bring reinforcements.
What you would need to break that is something akin to the Colossus - a ship able to withstand and deal massive amounts of punishment in the very begining, this, followed by every other warship you can squeeze trough the node.
Of course, if hte enemy also has one ship liek that, then the only way to break trough would be vastly superior numbers
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Offline Mobius

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
I think you're a bit wrong. No one will let the enemy inflict damage to a warship like the Colossus just because "It won't go down during that battle". Actually, some Mjolnirs assisted by a couple of corvettes with the addition of bombers can inflict enormous damage to the Colossus, forcing the GTVA to spend an incredible amount of money which could be used to commission even a destroyer. Also, a warship in need of repairs is vulnerable.

The GTVA sent expeditionary forces before sending in the Colossus when Epsilon Pegasi was secured and Polaris was then vunlerable.

  

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Blitzkrieg tactics & FS battlegrounds...!
Gentlemen you seem to forget the very reason why blitzkrieg tactic was created. And that is to defeat a vastly superior enemy as quikly and as cost efective as you can. In other words inflicting the largest amount of damage with a minimum of cost. Now this can be spined around the other way since well you cant force open a blocade unless you are willing to take some casualties. And when i'm sayng casualties i'm talking about at least one destroyer and severel other warships. Now if you are dooing this and losing this many ships to take out a force which is equal or stronger then you and you are succeding then I say it is wort it. But if you are losing so many ships to just 1 desroyer and a hand full of other smaller warships then your plan has just shot through the roof.

Look shivan has a clear numerical advantage and in some areas a tech. advantage. But they are by no means unbetable. And a blitz tactic would be perfect for the kind of warfare the GTVA has to fight against the shivans which is a very fast very deadly mobile war. Where each task force or fleet is as self suficient as posible. Sure they cant be fully self suficient but you can extend the amount of time and resources they have on hand to fight the shivans. If you are moving fast enough and are inflicting enough damage to the enemy in the end they are sure to colapse.

Sure that cant be said when regarding the shivans well.......at least not yet since lets face it it would require the GTVA to have a fleet at least 10 times that of the pre NTF/Second shivan invasion to seriously consider driving the shivans back. And only then if they do not spread theyr forces in too many sistems.
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