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Offline MP-Ryan

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Great, I'll go through it today.  The wing errors have to do with the use of the change-iff sexp.  In effect, FRED thinks some wings have been ordered to attack vessels on its own side.  By the time those wings appear, the change-iff sexp has changed those vessels to the other side.  Thus these are warnings that may be safely ignored.

Alrighty.

I'm actually going to tinker with a few of the missions with issues for an hour or so now and see what we can do about them, especially the last one.  The way it played out last time was a very anti-climactic.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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OK... in E1M4, the Abydos survives quite easily, so maybe just add a condition that if you screw up the mission totally and it gets destroyed you get yelled at.  Also, as Mad Bomber said, Epsilon 1 is indeed named "Jamming Device", which seems an odd callsign for a pilot :P

E3M7... this mission just BUGS me.

1.  It's like the Ravana is declawed even before you do anything.  Once the primary beam cannons are destroyed, it no longer fires on anything... you, your wingmen, the Warlock... nothing.  And it's still toting at least 4 other beam cannons, plus flak turrets, laser turrets, and missiles.  Seems silly.  Suggestions:
-Change the mission briefing and events so you're going after the weapons subsystem.  Then it makes sense that the destroyer should stop firing when it's destroyed.
-Better yet, change the events so the Ravana continues firing on fightercraft and the Warlock with it's other weapons systems (when these things are within range, obviously.)  If you fly it right and escape, the Ravana never gets in range of the Warlock with its smaller beam weapons, so really it just needs to engage the fighters.  Feels really stupid to be flying your Erinyes 200 meters from the Ravana's hull and get nothing shot at you.  Of course, if you don't destroy the primary beams then the destroyer unloads on you, but as soon as those cannons are gone it gives up... which is just not right.

2.  Messaging events.  Two issues here:
-The Warlock's gunnery message comes late - it opens fire before that message appears.  I'll grant you that beam slash misses the first time, so either advance this message before the Warlock fires at all, OR add another earlier message that says "Testing beam range" or something of the like first.  Right now it seems strange.  The third option is to change that message to read "Gunnery range test complete.  Gunnery control, open fire with all beam cannons!" but I think I prefer the second or first options.
-The communications node message is linked in with the destruction of the Daskha.  It was odd to see, after the comm node had been destroyed for a full five minutes, a message from the Warlock to destroy the comm node.  That needs to be made dependent on the comm node's existence, so it has a separate event (and you should get a congratulatory message for destroying the node).

3.  The Rakshasa cruisers at the end are just... bah, I don't like them.  First off, they're singleminded about the bombers and the Warlock, so if you disarm them the never shoot at you - again, just goody.  Second, when they show up Command tells you to destroy the fighters - what fighters?  No fighters warp in with the cruisers, and if you've already wiped out those attacking the Warlock you're left sitting there going "Command is REALLY stupid.  Or delusional."  Which, while I'll grant you is not out of the ordinary in FS2, usually it's intentional and not due to errors in the mission :)  So a couple things:
-First off, the cruisers need teeth.  They should engage whatever attacks them, and engage the Warlock (which they do do if they get in range).  Also, and this is probably more controversial... two cruisers at that range are not a threat if you engage them right away.  They'll be more of a threat if they repel attack, so that's a good first start, but they're still rather anticlimactic.  Russik says he's got more friends, and then two cruisers show up.  Yay.  Big deal.  We've got a Hecate, two bomber wings, and whatever fighters are left.  So, we need to either add fighters, or maybe consider changing one of the cruisers to a corvette to make this a little more credible.
-Second, the fighter message.  Either add fighters so the message makes sense, or remove the message.

And now, I'm off to find out if the GTC Nicholas usually survives E2M1.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 01:21:18 pm by MP-Ryan »
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Offline MP-Ryan

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OK, last nitpick for now.

E2M1
-I missed a grammar error.  "The GTC Nicolas is going to try and flush her towards the portal.  We'll keep you posted.  Carry on."  should be "The GTC Nicolas is going to try to flush her toward the portal.  We'll keep you posted.  Carry on."

-The Nicholas doesn't survive this mission.  It *might* be possible to preserve her, but I haven't been able to.  It seems to be a choice of save the Nicholas, lose a transport, or save the transports, lose the Nicholas.  As such, I suggest the debriefing be changed as follows:

Condition 1:  All transports survive, GTC Nicholas survives.  Mission success, bonus objective complete.  Debriefing to read:
Quote
A job well done, pilot.  The convoy sucessfully made the jump to what's now been identified as the Mintaka system.  If we're planning on mounting an expedition into that system we'll need all the supplies we can get.

In addition, the crew of the GTC Nicholas extends their thanks.  While your mission objective was to protect the convoy, it is a testament to the skill and resourcefulness of you and your wing that you were able to preserve the convoy intact and come to the aid of a warship in distress.  Well done!

Tomorrow's briefing will cover the details of this new system and our objectives in it.  Until then, get some rest.

Recommendation text:  Protecting the GTC Nicholas was above and beyond the call of duty.  Well done!

Condition 2:  All transports survive, GTC Nicholas destroyed.  Debriefing:
Quote
A job well done pilot.  The convoy sucessfully made the jump to what's now been identified as the Mintaka system.  If we're planning on mounting an expedition into that system we'll need all the supplies we can get.

It is unfortunate that the GTC Nicholas was destroyed, but you were correct to defend the convoy and leave the Shivan corvette to our capital ships.

Tomorrow's briefing will cover the details of this new system and our objectives in it.  Until then, get some rest.

No recommendation text.

Condition 3:  GTC Nicholas survives, convoy vessels destroyed.
Quote
While you managed to protect the GTC Nicholas, your primary objective to escort the convoy to the portal was a failure.  Many died as a result of your careless escort.  All GTVA pilots are required to follow the orders issued to them.  If you cannot do that, then perhaps you are not cut out for this outfit.

Dismissed.

Recommendation text:  Keep a close eye on the convoy.  Priority targets are the bombers, but watch out for fast moving fighters as well.  The GTC Nicholas is not your responsibility, although disarming the Shivan corvette may allow the Nicholas to escape.

Condition 4:  Nicholas destroyed, convoy ship destroyed.
Quote
Your primary objective to escort the convoy to the portal was a failure.  Many died as a result of your careless escort.  Perhaps you are not cut out for this outfit.

Dismissed.

Recommendation text:  Keep a close eye on the convoy.  Priority targets are the bombers, but watch out for fast moving fighters as well.  The GTC Nicholas is not your responsibility, although disarming the Shivan corvette may allow the Nicholas to escape.


And, that's it for me.  Anything else comes up and I'll have a look later this evening.
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Offline Mobius

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I take note of Epsilon 1's alt name.

Ah, I forgot to tell you that I renamed the "GTC Nicolas". It is now called "Nicolas". In Warzone, ship names are fortunately free from prefixes.
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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Okay, the holiday today prevents me from doing all I had intended, but I added some of MP_Ryan's changes, together with some other mostly directives related edits.  For instance, in the Source of Confusion mission, command would announce that jamming had ceased only when all targets in the area were destroyed.  Thus you could blow up some lousy Ashema, and get the jamming ended message.  I separated the objectives do that the jammer down message comes when the jammer blows up.  I haven't yet tackled the final mission, which we'll probably need to discuss out.  I have added proper failed RTB messages to a couple of other missions which needed them.

Mobius, I'd like you to take a look at the Northwest Passage mission and edit it such that the Shivan corvette only fires on the Nicolas _once_ with its beams.  The idea was to badly damage this ship such that the player needs to defend it against the enemy Manticores.  There is no chance for it to survive a second beam attack.  The Shivan corvette was supposed to be occupied solely with fighting the Vasudan destroyer, but for some reason it keeps turning back to reengage the Nicolas.

I think we are getting close now.  I'd like to get another round of mission testing and feedback in, then take on the final mission.  I'f be delighted if some of you other folks who have been downloading WIPs would chime in with feedback.

Mobius now has control of the mission files.

WIP (Missions only)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 12:05:26 am by Admiral Nelson »
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Offline MP-Ryan

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I'm going to wait for LGM's updates to the mission files before playtesting again.  That, and I have a combined total of 20 pages of academic writing due in between now and Wednesday at noon, so I have other things to do :)

I like your idea of holding off on the final mission for now as well.  I think that one can be significantly improved.
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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That's fine.  I do think we are close.  I uploaded another version just now, as I crunched another annoying bug (created by myself :) )
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Offline Mobius

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Ok, you can count on me.

Have you fixed Epsilon 1's alt name in E1M4? If not, I will fix it. Simple! :D

Uhm...so the Moloch has to fire with 2 SReds? One isn't enough for our purpose, if I understand well. beam protect ship and fire-beam should solve the problem ;)
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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Ok, you can count on me.

Have you fixed Epsilon 1's alt name in E1M4? If not, I will fix it. Simple! :D
Yep... :)

Quote
Uhm...so the Moloch has to fire with 2 SReds? One isn't enough for our purpose, if I understand well. beam protect ship and fire-beam should solve the problem ;)

Yes, probably.  The two beams are enough to critically damage the ship, making it vulnerable to the Manticores launched by the corvette.
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Offline Mobius

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Uhm...strange...

I have opened E2M1, the one of your latest WIP mission pack...

None of the changes I have made is present. The Equinox, for example, has no Special Warp. The Nicolas is again called GTC Nicolas.

This problem seems to affect E2M1 only. The other missions seem to have the changed I have made.

So, what should I do with E2M1? My copy of my edited version has been replaced with this one. I can DL my package another time, but all changes MP-Ryan has made would be lost.

I can, of course, change the mission another time, but I wanted to inform you ;)

Uhm, have you tested E2M1? I think that either the Moloch or the Fenris should be replaced because the Moloch will surely pass near it when it jumps(it needs time to decelerate, I know it very well because there's one such event in SthCrs as well, and I got mad with it), so there will be just one SRed targeting the Nicolas. Tell me what I have to do.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 08:43:52 am by LieutenantGeneralMobius »
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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That's curious; it is possible I had the wrong version of that mission alone in my missions folder.  I think your only changes had been to tick the special warp box and make that name change.  I'd say just to apply said change again.

I tried to position the Nicolas such that the Moloch would have time when it jumps in to blast it a single time with both beams, then turn to attack the Tatenen.  It does do so as it stands now, it is just that despite being given the order to attack Tatenen at the highest priority, it keeps turning back and reengaging the Nicolas.  Perhaps waypoint for the Moloch can be used to keep it from turning back again towards the Nicolas.
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Offline Mobius

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Not really, the number of stars is back to 500 and cargo units have default names...

I try to test the mission, and see what should we do with the Nicolas. I'm really taking in consideration the creation of a waypoint, but I want to play the mission first.
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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Curious.  Not sure why that mission alone would have reverted to a previous iteration.  If MP-Ryan can confirm whether or not he changed anything in that mission, we may be able to just go back to your version.
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Offline Mobius

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Ok...something to say.

The Equinox acted strangely. If I remember well, it should simply point to its waypoint and then jump out. It turned, and then jump out. Weird.

Since it was the Nicolas the ship that we added, I have reduced the y coords of it and its waypoints of 100 meters so the Rehemas can use its beams. Unfortunately, only one of the two frontal beams has fired(I have to change the coords a bit...)but it has inflicted about 40% of damage to the Nicolas. We know that the cruiser was pursued by the Shivans, and it jumps in with its hull integrity at 100%. We can set some damage, and let the Rehemas use just one SRed. This would make the Nicolas vulnerable enough for the Manticores, that can generally inflict nothing but 10% of damage(considering the presence of the player escorting the Nicolas). Quite fair for me. Also, I prevent the Nicolas from being disabled using ship subsys guardian threshold. Since there are no messages or events about eventual repairs, it is wothwile to prevent the Nicolas from being disabled. If we set some damage and the Rehemas use just one SRed, I can reset the Nicolas' coords.

The first turret of the Tatenen has been set to use BVas beams. The Rehemas will surely be destroyed in a matter of seconds: two BVas, then another BVas in case the corvette goes under the destroyer.

Also, I noticed that there's a wing of Shivan spacecraft composed by Seraphim bombers and Manticores. I suggest to split this wing in two separate wings.

The Vasudan freighters are grouped in Theta wing, while the briefing mentions Iota wing...
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Offline jr2

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Can you post a link or attach just that mission?

 

Offline Mobius

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Sure...

I will make additional changes. Once we discuss about the things I mentioned in the other post.

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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Ok...something to say.

The Equinox acted strangely. If I remember well, it should simply point to its waypoint and then jump out. It turned, and then jump out. Weird.

Sounds like a waypoints-done-delay problem.  Did the ship or its waypoint move?

Quote
Since it was the Nicolas the ship that we added, I have reduced the y coords of it and its waypoints of 100 meters so the Rehemas can use its beams. Unfortunately, only one of the two frontal beams has fired(I have to change the coords a bit...)but it has inflicted about 40% of damage to the Nicolas. We know that the cruiser was pursued by the Shivans, and it jumps in with its hull integrity at 100%. We can set some damage, and let the Rehemas use just one SRed. This would make the Nicolas vulnerable enough for the Manticores, that can generally inflict nothing but 10% of damage(considering the presence of the player escorting the Nicolas). Quite fair for me. Also, I prevent the Nicolas from being disabled using ship subsys guardian threshold. Since there are no messages or events about eventual repairs, it is wothwile to prevent the Nicolas from being disabled. If we set some damage and the Rehemas use just one SRed, I can reset the Nicolas' coords.

Okay, this sounds reasonable.

Quote
The first turret of the Tatenen has been set to use BVas beams. The Rehemas will surely be destroyed in a matter of seconds: two BVas, then another BVas in case the corvette goes under the destroyer.

OKay, fine.  There is no need for the player to fight the corvette, it really is in the mission onyl as eye candy.

Quote
Also, I noticed that there's a wing of Shivan spacecraft composed by Seraphim bombers and Manticores. I suggest to split this wing in two separate wings.

Yes, the directive for this wing behaves oddly anyway.  You will notice that when you destroy the first wing, the directive turns blue and makes the complete sound, only to turn white again when the next wave appears.

Quote
The Vasudan freighters are grouped in Theta wing, while the briefing mentions Iota wing...

Quick fix.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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I didn't change much in E2M1, so I can go back through and make the changes again.  I'll post up the version I have.  Just make sure when the Nicholas' confusion is sorted out that the debriefing gets changed to what I gave you previously.

And on an unrelated note, who mucked up this thread? :P



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Offline jr2

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Sure...

I will make additional changes. Once we discuss about the things I mentioned in the other post.

Can you try this one out & tell me if there's any difference?

[attachment deleted by admin]

 

Offline Mobius

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Uhm, I don't know. What have you changed exactly, jr2?


I think that the Nicolas' hull integrity should be set to about 65 percent. I may randomize it so it will range between...I don't know...60% and 70%. This will hopefully make the mission a bit more interesting.

Nelson, everything seems ok with the Equinox, I think I will check it another time.
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