[Nuke]

youre too normal to see the light in darkness.

[jr2]

There is no Light in Darkness; the Light casts out the Darkness.

[Nuke]

youre too sane,you cant possibly understand

[jr2]

  19The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.(C)

    20For every wrongdoer hates (loathes, detests) the Light, and will not come out into the Light but shrinks from it, lest his works (his deeds, his activities, his conduct) be exposed and reproved.

[Ulala]

*sigh* here we go....

[jr2]

Heh, I would have split this into another topic, (I'm sure Nuke wouldn't mind), but there are no self-moderation options on this board, other than delete post. :/

[Mefustae]

There is no Light in Darkness; the Light casts out the Darkness.

youre too sane,you cant possibly understand

No, Nuke, he has a point. Logically speaking, darkness can be defined as the absence of light, hence a fallacy occurs when you try to imply there is light within darkness. Philosophically the issue is far more ambiguous, and jr2 is therefore wrong to attempt to apply an absolute statement to a philosophical paradigm, but the fact remains that logic is on his side.

[Nuke]

theres a meeting hall for debate. i was not planning on debating, simply expressing my views, it was not an invitation. its a waste of ones mental energires to try to disprove a metaphore with logic though. but theres a reason i havent asked for access to the meeting hall. jr2 is clearly a pcifist bible thumper, and nuke is clearly a nihilistik sociopath with a soft spot for homicidal maniacs. cant we just leave it at that?

[jr2]

theres a meeting hall for debate. i was not planning on debating, simply expressing my views, it was not an invitation. its a waste of ones mental energires to try to disprove a metaphore with logic though. but theres a reason i havent asked for access to the meeting hall. jr2 is clearly a pcifist bible thumper, and nuke is clearly a nihilistik sociopath with a soft spot for homicidal maniacs. cant we just leave it at that?

Sure, with one correction.

[Sandwich]

Yeah, it's kinda hard to be a pacifist if you actually read the whole Bible. But anyway...

He bought the gun legally, which is the really sad thing. It shows that super lax gun laws cause problems like this. If there was a law where a person had to go through a psychiatric profile before they bought a gun, then this might've not happened.

Uhm, try rephrasing that. Perhaps super-lax gun laws allow problems like this to occur easier, but they certainly don't cause such problems. The cause of such problems is violent video games mental instability combined with external circumstances to push you over the edge.

...not to be an armchair shrink or anything.

[Styxx]

...not to be an armchair shrink or anything.

...as opposed to a battlefield shrink?

[Sphynx]

Perhaps super-lax gun laws allow problems like this to occur easier, but they certainly don't cause such problems. The cause of such problems is violent video games mental instability combined with external circumstances to push you over the edge.

...not to be an armchair shrink or anything.

I think you are on target here, Sandwich. I actually am a "shrink," (a Medical Family Therapist, to be exact, and I have worked in inpatient psychiatry with the toughest mental health cases) and I have worked with other cases that could have turned out just like this had the signs not been identified and had we not resisted the external pressures to discharge the patient. I had one recent case where the patient was litterally going to be released in less than 40 minutes when I was working with her and uncovered the fact that she was feeling extremely homicidal towards her mother, who was with us in a family therapy session and who was going to be the one to drive her home upon her release from the psychiatric unit . Could we say for certain she was going to hurt her mother? No, but I wasn't willing to take the risk, and we kept the patient for a while longer until she was stablized.

When people are thinking delusionally and are under the influence of compulsive thoughts towards homicide or suicide, you have to take everything seriously. From what is being released, this guy was practically screaming "I'm unstable and dangerous!" Sadly, the mechanisms that were supposed to identify him and help him were bypassed, probably by people who felt that they meant well at the time.

The sad thing is, mental health is often considered a "luxury" service, and there is a real third-party and governmental pressure to get people out of treatment as soon as possible and as cheap as possible, sometimes regardless as to whether a real threat remains or not. While this is a tragedy, I am hoping that this helps people to reconsider the way mental health services are regarded in their place in the US health care system. Maybe, then, we will be given the resources we need to identify these cases early and prevent similar tragedies.

[Herra Tohtori]

From what is being released, this guy was practically screaming "I'm unstable and dangerous!" Sadly, the mechanisms that were supposed to identify him and help him were bypassed, probably by people who felt that they meant well at the time.

Kinda like Chernobyl... the reactor told the people controlling it that it was gonna pop, but those people didn't know how to interpret the signs... and they were told by higher authority to run the reactor test in a certain way, so that's what they did. Similarly, I'm pretty sure that in mental health care, the funds are as limited as in any other public health service, and resources are limited accordingly... thus, the health adminstration has to make their employees decide who should be treated and with what priority.

It can't be entirely the fault of the people trying to do their job at minimal budget. Mental health care pretty much everywhere has to do a lot of priorizing and that's bound to backfire occasionally. They cannot take care of everyone identified with problems. Perhaps, at the time of the mental health inspection or whatever, there were people more immediately dangerous to themselves and their surroundings that took up the slots for care before him. We don't know the context in which he was let go home, so it's best not to judge anything but what we see happened - the guy flipped and 33 people is dead as a result. We really don't *know* anything else, although there's a lot of hearsay going around different places.

Perhaps there could be a reason to assign some more funds to health services and less to funding overzealous crusades for spreading liberty to hell-holes of the world...

[Unknown Target]

Today's Morale: Don't tease shy kids, or they'll go crazy and kill you.

[Nuclear1]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

[Nuke]

Yeah, it's kinda hard to be a pacifist if you actually read the whole Bible. But anyway...

He bought the gun legally, which is the really sad thing. It shows that super lax gun laws cause problems like this. If there was a law where a person had to go through a psychiatric profile before they bought a gun, then this might've not happened.

Uhm, try rephrasing that. Perhaps super-lax gun laws allow problems like this to occur easier, but they certainly don't cause such problems. The cause of such problems is violent video games mental instability combined with external circumstances to push you over the edge.

...not to be an armchair shrink or anything.

ive sold guns in the united states before (used to work in a pawn shop). you cannot buy a gun with anything less than 3 pieces of identification, a brady form, and a phone call to the fbi. sure there are other ways to circumvent, small time weapon dealers, theft, ect. that pawn shot i worked for was rather shady but the feds were rather good at enforcing the gun laws. ant they probibly woulda fired us for selling a gun under the table.

[Grizzly]

Can you follow my train of thought?  I mean, I'm for hunting rights, I wouldn't mind hunting.  But if someone were to go out and become obsessed with killing animals, just reveling in doing so, wouldn't that cause you to perhaps take a closer look and see if other patterns might exist, and if they do, to notify authorities, as well as encourage said person to get help?

He is right you know... and I think I have to get myself checked (Im obsessed with killiing shivans)

[Sandwich]

When people are thinking delusionally and are under the influence of compulsive thoughts towards homicide or suicide, you have to take everything seriously. From what is being released, this guy was practically screaming "I'm unstable and dangerous!" Sadly, the mechanisms that were supposed to identify him and help him were bypassed, probably by people who felt that they meant well at the time.

...Maybe, then, we will be given the resources we need to identify these cases early and prevent similar tragedies.

Kinda like Chernobyl... the reactor told the people controlling it that it was gonna pop, but those people didn't know how to interpret the signs... and they were told by higher authority to run the reactor test in a certain way, so that's what they did.

What came to mind when I read your posts was something I heard recently regarding Hitler and WWII... I forget the exact quote, but it was along the lines of, "If someone is threatening to kill you - pay attention to him!" And with that in mind, I personally can't help but think of Ahmedinenjhad's (sp?) threats to wipe the country I live in off the map.

But anyway.

[KappaWing]

ive sold guns in the united states before (used to work in a pawn shop). you cannot buy a gun with anything less than 3 pieces of identification, a brady form, and a phone call to the fbi. sure there are other ways to circumvent, small time weapon dealers, theft, ect. that pawn shot i worked for was rather shady but the feds were rather good at enforcing the gun laws. ant they probibly woulda fired us for selling a gun under the table.

Are you sure thats not just Alaska law? Ive known people aquiring arms around here (Michigan) much easier.

And I couldent help but notice this when seeing Cho's hammer pic.

[Mefustae]

What I want to know is why NBC is being berated for showing his video.  Aren't these people even curious as to the method behind his madness?