[colecampbell666]

God is in the Canadian national anthem, and many others, but AFAIK, not many people have griped about it

O Canada! Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide, O Canada,
We stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee;
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

[Scuddie]

Standing on guard is a hard thing to do when you don't have an army

[BloodEagle]

Standing on guard is a hard thing to do when you don't have an army

Objection, relevance!

----

At this rate, we'll have broken Godwin's law four times by Friday!

[Agent_Koopa]

Standing on guard is a hard thing to do when you don't have an army

Yeah, that's why we have to do the standing on guard for our army.

[Galemp]

It depends on the interpretation of Under God.  While being a person with Christian-like ideas, I see Under God as a reference to power.  The Church of England was said to have the monarchy in its pocket.  They often insisted England was God's country, and had the authority of God for their conquests.  Under God (In my eyes) means just that we should recognize that while we may be a great power, we are not the Ultimate authority, and must remain modest in our actions.  To me, this is a very valid part of our pledge.

There is one crucial difference: the United States governs under Rule of Law, not Divine Right. The very reason there was a revolutionary war 230 years ago was to assert that political power comes from the consent of the governed, and not from God.

[Roanoke]

I always figured an enforced pledge is meaningless. In the same vein as a confession obtained under duress (sp?).

[TrashMan]

it sould be illegal for politicians to mention the word god while on the job.

Meh...Many things should be illegal...like you breathing (Oh, I'm SOOOOO EVIIIIILLL)

I really don't care one way or the other - a problem on this planet are people who read too much into things or blow up the importanc of stuff/events instead of being laid back.

Who...The f***...cares....

[Galemp]

Sorry, TrashMan, but I would feel better if the President didn't consider me to be unpatriotic and unworthy of citizenship on the grounds of my religious beliefs.




Wouldn't you?

[TrashMan]

Eh? What's your religion (or lack thereof) got to do with patriotism?


The word "God" works for any monotheistic relgion (well..since any God..is a god ) ...if you're an atheist or budhist, just consider it a honoring of the past (USA was founded by christians mostly) or a a sensless, meaningless word you jsut read and ignore (like the EULA)...

[Ghostavo]

TrashMan, you would do well to read the first post in a thread.

Here, read this and then try to say the same thing.

[Galemp]

Thanks Ghostavo.

It's important because a vocal minority and their elected officials are using the phrase "One Nation Under God" as if it's the founding principle of our country and are using it to jeer at and dismiss the opinions of non-Christians. This is increasingly being translated into policy, in contradiction with the guarantee of religious freedom granted to all citizens by the Constitution. It has very tangible effects on (for example) Veterans Affairs, science education in public schools, and freedom of individual expression.

As for your assertion that the US was founded by Christians... well, it's irrelevant since the United States wasn't founded on the personal convictions of the Founding Fathers, but on the consensus they reached when they wrote the Constitution. But try to find me a quote from Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams, or Thomas Paine that speaks of Christianity in a positive light. I'm not trying to be divisive or offensive, but I would like the record set straight.

And, er... EULAs are kinda important too (software usage rights, privacy policy, spyware/malware installation, etc.) If I were you I'd consider reading legal documents before signing them.

[TrashMan]

Mah...I read the EULA...sometimes.....very rarely...they are all basicly the same....most ppl I know don't read it at all.

However, I fail to see what a sentance in a speech has to do with "runing religious freedoms" or steering the country/legislations/something else to favor some minority...
Bush and some of your elected officials being idiots is a WHOLE different matter tough.

[Pathwarden]

Standing on guard is a hard thing to do when you don't have an army

I dont know, I wouldnt want to risk Canada sending down an army of Were-Moose.

Eh?

 

[colecampbell666]

Or...WERE-HARPERS!!!

(much worse)

[Scuddie]

I've seen were-larpers...  Those things make were-moose look like regular moose.

Oh, and galemp, you bring up a very valid point, and I have to agree with it.  Fact of the matter is, Under God does belong in the pledge, but it needs to be changed how it is written.  But I wont even begin to say how much of a can of worms that is...  Equal to God or even Above God is arrogant and self righteous, Separate from God sounds almost like hostility towards religion, and everything in between can me misinterpreted just as Under God has been.  Yes our  nation was built on the basis of religious freedom, but it is almost mandatory to state that even if we are the primary world power, we are not the be-all end-all ultimate authority.

[Maxwell]

When I was growing up not saying the Pledge could have gotten you beaten, with a belt, by the teacher.
If you complained to the principle, theres a good chance he would beat you with a belt too.
Complain about it to your parents?  they'd also beat you with a belt when they got you home.

...and don't you dare call the cops.
They wore very big belts.

Since a generation of hippies managed to grow up reciting the pledge from heart like good little angels, and they did not all turn out to be strait A Christian academy students by the end, it  seems to me that the pledge itself did not do any of the harm its critics have claimed.
It also proves that the money spent to argue this in court was well wasted on making lawyers rich.   


With all of the burdens we share as children of the Nuclear age, I'd think being able to recite a stupid poem on que is hardly a trouble worth complaining about.

[KappaWing]

With all of the burdens we share as children of the Nuclear age, I'd think being able to recite a stupid poem on que is hardly a trouble worth complaining about.

That makes perfect sense, but you must understand this is all a bunch of symbolic gestures, a battle to test the public and demonstrate who has the real power to sway their minds and more importantly the minds of law-making figures.

At face value, its just an innocent little poem, but the battle has to be fought somewhere, (or over something, in this sense).

EDIT: And to colecampbell666, are Canadian students required to recite the national anthem in school? That would be the fundamental difference here.

[Agent_Koopa]

EDIT: And to colecampbell666, are Canadian students required to recite the national anthem in school? That would be the fundamental difference here.

We sing it. Most people don't but with my LOVE OF MUSIC I do.

[jr2]

christianity was created for the sole purpose of keeping theese kind of people in power. it seems to have worked.

  Someone didn't pay attention in History class.

[Nuke]

there are 2 kinds of history, the recognized history and the truth. the more time that passes by, the more the truth is lost. what we have isnt the truth, what we have is a bunch of filtered, misinterpreted, misunderstood and just plain mutilated history. opinions generated by so called intelectuals who get all their information from books written by the same kind of people who make opinions based on what little varifyable information they have. i may not have all the facts, but my point is that the historians dont have all the facts either. i merely add my interpretation to the mix.

you want proof of my theory?
<nuke points at america>