[Scooby_Doo]

Don't forget the mother-of-all-modding.... Doom 1 

[Vengence]

I meant the newer games are better compared to older games in general. not freespace

Again, case-to-case scenario.


I look at some of the new games and cry in agony at the redicolous limitations or fu**-up procedures needed to get something done.

Just look at C&C3 - you need to COMPILE your MOD, than ends up like 20mb for something as simple as adding a single unit!

The compiling I can handle, what I can't stand is the difficulty in understanding all those XMLs. I can't even understand how some special abilities work.

[Jake2447]

Don't forget the mother-of-all-modding.... Doom 1 

Yes, Doom was very moddable, but one still had to have a good knowledge of programming to do much.  In FS2 it is so easy to do simple mods (ships, ship properties, weapons, etc.), and I would argue, although I have little personal experience, that the source of FS2 is more moddable than Doom, based on the improvements FSOpen has made.

[TrashMan]

I meant the newer games are better compared to older games in general. not freespace

Again, case-to-case scenario.


I look at some of the new games and cry in agony at the redicolous limitations or fu**-up procedures needed to get something done.

Just look at C&C3 - you need to COMPILE your MOD, than ends up like 20mb for something as simple as adding a single unit!

The compiling I can handle, what I can't stand is the difficulty in understanding all those XMLs. I can't even understand how some special abilities work.

Don't get me started! They are cross-referenced about a dozen times... really messy and there's so much unneeded stuff in those XML's (liek repeating something a dozen times in one XML!) it makes my eyes bleed...

[Nuke]

i started modding with descent 2. now that was a *****. if you didnt model your ship in precisely the right way youd seriously screw up your bsp data. and i never figured out how to add multiple new robots without replacing old ones. in the end i ended up with a bunch of partly finished levels, several robots that didnt render properly and a good number of fixed pallette textures, all of which i lost because i was too lazy to wait for them to transfer from my p1-120mhz machine to my p3-500mhz machine via serial cable. though in retrospect i didnt loose much.

then did quake and quake2 mapping, i still have many levels that are half done or done and wont compile. and with so many flavors of quake and quake 2 floating around i shouldd probibly finish those. also did quake-c thoough i never did figure out how to code for quake 2. and modeling in any quake just wasnt happening. i did make several weapon models and started an energy weapons only mod, and this was around the time of nukemod r2 (the first real release of nukemod, as r1 was just a single untextured and flat shaded 150 poly ship and some hackish weapons and i was in highschool at the time iirc). anyway the mod was full of bugs and there was too much fragmentation among quake engines so i wasnt ablee to implement all the features i wanted.

i also dabbled in freelancer modding. i just took a couple newer ships from nukemod and import them into freelancer. as it turns out it was a harder game too mod and you didnt get much flexability with what you could do.

freespace is getting to a level where people can implement things the coders never thought was possible. freespace is a good engine for noobs and vets alike. noobs can get ships in with a bare minimum of tools and an old geezer like myself can use the scripting system and the almost complete knoledge of how everything works to implement supprising new features.

[Vengence]

I knew it was easy but that easy? I'm beginning to think that FS2 might be one of the most moddable games ever. It is just that Total Annihilation is probably the most given that it has over 3000 mods. However I suppose that community might be dying.

[Scooby_Doo]

Don't forget the mother-of-all-modding.... Doom 1 

Yes, Doom was very moddable, but one still had to have a good knowledge of programming to do much.  In FS2 it is so easy to do simple mods (ships, ship properties, weapons, etc.), and I would argue, although I have little personal experience, that the source of FS2 is more moddable than Doom, based on the improvements FSOpen has made.

I don't remember having to do any programming with doom.  Levels were quickly built with an editor (s).  Even the graphics/sound/music had gui editors for it.  Although I've long lost their names.  As far as I can remember.. you actually need todo more programming with fs2 if you edit tables.  Course there were severe limititions to the doom engine (no new creatures for example).

[Mobius]

I knew it was easy but that easy? I'm beginning to think that FS2 might be one of the most moddable games ever. It is just that Total Annihilation is probably the most given that it has over 3000 mods. However I suppose that community might be dying.

WHAT? THE TA COMMUNITY IS STILL ALIVE?

Link, please!!!!

<FreeSpace is easier to MOD than TA, anyways>

[colecampbell666]

-What you think about modding?
-Do you think FS2 Modding is easy?
-How would you describe the impact SCP project?

1) I have only just started but I am really excited! It all looks so fun and easy! I think modding adds a new dimension to the game as new and fresh material is constantly coming out.
2) FS2 has got to be one of the most easy games to mod, not just because of the fantastic programs made for it, such as VPmage, ModelView, PCS2, etc but the friendly community and so many walkthroughs and tutorials. The .TBLs and .TBMs make it a lot easier to mod as they are simple to understand with a bit of reading, and can do so much. There is no easier way to make ships, and PCS2 improves on this aspect a lot.
3) The release of the source code makes this even better as you can delve right into the roots of the game and change the engine as you like. With dedicated and hardworking coders like Kara, Inquisitor, WMC and many more the code will only get better.

You might want to add a small part to your project on why open-source games/software is better.

[Dark Hunter]

-What you think about modding?
-Do you think FS2 Modding is easy?
-How would you describe the impact SCP project?

I think modding adds new life to games, and keeps them alive well after most would've keeled over. FS2 is a prime example. For all it's an excellent game, if modding it was impossible it would likely have died long ago.

I admittedly, do not have much experience in modding, but FS2 is extremely easy, and help readily available in the form of the active community, so I feel like I have the freedom to do practically anything I want in FS2...

The SCP's impact has been 100% positive for Freespace. Prettier graphics, more flexible code, fun new features! Who wouldn't like that?  

[Hades]

-What you think about modding?
-Do you think FS2 Modding is easy?
-How would you describe the impact SCP project?

#1.It is fun, like with the tables.You can change almost anything.It keeps life into the game.
#2.It is not hard at all.With the table/POF/textures/etc, it is very fun and easy.
#3.With the SCP or FSO it is even easier to mod.The missions have more things you can do with them.

[Nuke]

Don't forget the mother-of-all-modding.... Doom 1 

Yes, Doom was very moddable, but one still had to have a good knowledge of programming to do much.  In FS2 it is so easy to do simple mods (ships, ship properties, weapons, etc.), and I would argue, although I have little personal experience, that the source of FS2 is more moddable than Doom, based on the improvements FSOpen has made.

I don't remember having to do any programming with doom.  Levels were quickly built with an editor (s).  Even the graphics/sound/music had gui editors for it.  Although I've long lost their names.  As far as I can remember.. you actually need todo more programming with fs2 if you edit tables.  Course there were severe limititions to the doom engine (no new creatures for example).

i really dont consider freespace's tables programming. sence all youre doing is setting variables that the engine code uses. youre not doing any math, youre not compairing anything ect, you dont have to compile it. back in descent all your variales were stored in binary formats which made editing them damn near impossible. this is why i was glad that freespace's tables were parsed ascii (as bad as that parsing code reportedly is).

[Scooby_Doo]

"Programming" was a bad choice of words anyways....

[Hades]

Uhh is this you?:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-gallery/33017-school-project-armored-core.html

[Vengence]

Uhh is this you?:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-gallery/33017-school-project-armored-core.html

uh, yeah...

Everyone's input is highly appreciated  . Next week I'll be able to find out more about the project at hand. As for videos, does anyone know any good free recording programs besides Fraps?

[Jake2447]

Don't forget the mother-of-all-modding.... Doom 1 

Yes, Doom was very moddable, but one still had to have a good knowledge of programming to do much.  In FS2 it is so easy to do simple mods (ships, ship properties, weapons, etc.), and I would argue, although I have little personal experience, that the source of FS2 is more moddable than Doom, based on the improvements FSOpen has made.

I don't remember having to do any programming with doom.  Levels were quickly built with an editor (s).  Even the graphics/sound/music had gui editors for it.  Although I've long lost their names.  As far as I can remember.. you actually need todo more programming with fs2 if you edit tables.  Course there were severe limititions to the doom engine (no new creatures for example).

Sorry, I kind of exaggerated there, but I still think it is easier to make a campaign in FS2 that it is to make a Doom WAD, and a lot of that is the age difference.  It was just a thought.  But, I would definately agree that Doom is one of the most popularly and easily modded games and should be included in Vengence's report.

[Scooby_Doo]

I LOVED making levels for the Doom (including hexen).  I once had wolfenstien ported to doom and heretic rebuilt with hexen.  Making maps with wad was quick and easy... unlike Quake which took forever just to build and vis portal a map    and I mean all night.  Unreal was consideriably faster in that respect.

[Vengence]

I never played or modded doom at all so I have no idea what it is like. I could mention it if I can find a reason to besides the popularity.

[Ace Pace]

As a dabbler in the toolsets of differant programs, Freespace 2 is one of the easiest to mod, at the initial stage.
Doing simple custom missions, or modifying already created ships, is dead easy. Far easier then most modern games, where you have to jump multiple hoops to do anything interesting, esspecially with scripting.
But the moment you want to do anything complex and game changing, it gets harder, atleast compared to the gold standard of the Unreal Engine, where, without code acess, you can practically replace the entire game except the basic modules without touching the engine, just Uscript code.

[Vengence]

I would go into the Unreal Engine in my report but there is one catch: There is another game modding presentation in the class. I read a bit on it and it focuses heavily on what it is and the impact on major games which, unsurprisingly, included the Half-Life, GTA, and Unreal as a subject. I want to include only those relatively 'unsung' games that are the best of modding but not well known exactly.

Basically this is what I am planning to do:

Give a bit of a history and show how to mod and the possibilities. I will be actively giving the speech however I will have to find out how to get FS2 to the school if I want to actively show how to mod the game.

"You DO know what Gears of War is right? Tell me, what made it sell? Go on, tell me. [expects class reply] Indeed, it has the best graphics, best gameplay, and best storyline of the next gen games. But tell me, what REALLY made it sell? [waits for class... expects no reply] Let me tell you something. In 1999 Freespace 2 was ALL that. It had the absolute best graphics, best gameplay, and outright best storyline of ANY space sim games ever created. In fact, there isn't a single new space sim game that can beat FS2's story or gameplay. It is the greatest space sim ever created then and now. It was the Gears of War of its time, and yet... why don't you know about it? Which brings me to my original question: What made Gears of War sell? Advertising. GOW was advertised all over and yet FS2 got nothing. FS2 was praised by reviewers for its excellence yet the consumers never knew it was released. With no customer awareness the game failed to sell and this hence forth marked the end of the great space sim era. However Freespace 2 still lives on strongly. In 2002 the source code for the game was released to the public and soon the Source Code Project was born. Thanks to the SCP, the Freespace 2 engine has been enhanced far beyond what even the developers could ever imagine in the beginning. The SCP's enhancements are great and many, including tremendous engine graphics enhancements."

"Where the programmers improved the engine, the modders made the game look pretty. Modders from all over contributed in making high detail models and textures for the game and significantly improved the game. It is almost like a completely different game!"

"Freespace 2 at first was already a tremendously easy to mod game but now, thanks to SCP, the game's modding capability was expanded far beyond the original's capacity. Giant total conversions such as The Babylon Project brought Babylon 5 to FS2, Beyond the Red Line gave us the new Battlestar Galactica, and even Shadows of Lyat gave us Star Fox! The large, active, and loyal community of Freespace 2 still lives on strongly even after all these years after the game was released. If it wasn't for these great modders and programmers the greatest space sim of all time would have died long ago."

"Now, I will show you what it is like. What it is like to mod this great game. You heard me say this game is easy to mod, well I will show you how easy."

After this speech and showing videos of FS2 and the mods, I will actively demonstrate modding very quickly. However I will only have 10 minutes to do this as well as show a few other games. I will have to make this very quickly but get the message through. I will quickly demonstrate the extraction tools, PCS, ModelView, some tables, and try as fast as I can to implement a new unit. Maybe a premade table. If anyone has any ideas on how to streamline this process, I will be very thankful.