[Sarafan]

Name one country that doesn't have examples of humanity at its worst in its (not so distant) history.  Oh.  None.  Riiight.  We know this... welcome to (fallen ) planet Earth.

Brazil.

[karajorma]

Lies.Bloody lies.
1.7 million serbs during WW2???? Heck, there even werent that many Serbs then to begin with.
There was only one event like that,  if I'm not mistaken and the total number of dead wasn't over 30,000.

Croatia has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing.
In fact, it one of the very few countries that forged it's kingdom and expanded wihtout war. In it's whole history (over 1400 years) Croatia has never attacked another country.

Are you ****ing kidding me?

Are you seriously trying to claim that Jasenovac concentration camp is a fabrication?

Besides surely one case of genocide is enough for you to lose the argument.

[TrashMan]

No, Jasenovac happened. That's what I was talking about - but it was 3000 dead or so.

Damn ustaša - they were crazy buggers, as nuts as Stalin. Thankfully they didn't stay in power for long.

But I'm asking you to name one country Croatia attacked/invaded.

[karajorma]

Did I ever say that they had invaded anyone?

The point under discussion which you interjected the name of your own country into was

Name one country that doesn't have examples of humanity at its worst in its (not so distant) history.  Oh.  None.  Riiight.  We know this... welcome to (fallen ) planet Earth.

And you think that the presence of a concentration camp in Croatia doesn't qualify as an example of humanity at it's worst?

Not to mention the amusing way you've gone from

There was only one event like that,  if I'm not mistaken and the total number of dead wasn't over 30,000.

to

No, Jasenovac happened. That's what I was talking about - but it was 3000 dead or so.

with no evidence whatsoever. I suppose next time you're going to tell me that there was only one man in the camp and he had cancer anyway so it was a mercy killing!

I actually bothered to look up some details before I posted (evidently more than you've done) and the BBC article is actually the lowest figure I could come up with. A team of investigator from Auschwitz put the total at 600,000 and several other reports put the figures much higher.

[Asuko]

Um, ok. So we have established that there is not likely one country that hasn't committed genocide in its' existence. What else is there to speak of?

[Sarafan]

Um, ok. So we have established that there is not likely one country that hasn't committed genocide in its' existence. What else is there to speak of?

Ahem.

Name one country that doesn't have examples of humanity at its worst in its (not so distant) history.  Oh.  None.  Riiight.  We know this... welcome to (fallen ) planet Earth.

Brazil.

[karajorma]

I'm half Angolan so the fact that I can only find references in the native language isn't as big a problem as it was for Croatia.

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/brasil/ult96u323017.shtml

And that's even without dealing with the death squads who are killing street children.


I'll let someone else deal with the next one though.

[Sarafan]

I'm half Angolan so the fact that I can only find references in the native language isn't as big a problem as it was for Croatia.

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/brasil/ult96u323017.shtml

And that's even without dealing with the death squads who are killing street children.


I'll let someone else deal with the next one though.

There are no death squads here, do you have source on that?

[karajorma]

http://www.stephenbrookes.com/international/2006/4/18/the-murder-of-rios-street-kids.html

First one I could dig up.

[TrashMan]

Did I ever say that they had invaded anyone?

The point under discussion which you interjected the name of your own country into was

Name one country that doesn't have examples of humanity at its worst in its (not so distant) history.  Oh.  None.  Riiight.  We know this... welcome to (fallen ) planet Earth.

And you think that the presence of a concentration camp in Croatia doesn't qualify as an example of humanity at it's worst?

My bad..I though was this was about invastion/agression against other countris and mass-approved exterminations.

I actually bothered to look up some details before I posted (evidently more than you've done) and the BBC article is actually the lowest figure I could come up with. A team of investigator from Auschwitz put the total at 600,000 and several other reports put the figures much higher.

Pft. Don't belive anything you read.
More that half the people on that list were killed somewhere else or were alive (some them probably still are) and were just added on the list to infate the number.
Unfortunately serbs excell at propaganda and we suck, so false information like that don't surprise me at all.

I'd love to educate you on the history and political turmoil in this area, yet for you to to evein begin to understand it all I would need days of typing and posting. The situation here is comlicated beyond belief and trying to explain it to someone who unfamiliar wiht it is...well...like trying to explain quantum physics to the some african native who never seen a white man.

[karajorma]

So without evidence you're trying to claim you know better?

I'll believe the BBC and the work of historians who have spent their entire life doing investigations into the holocaust over your unsubstantiated ramblings any day.

[Mobius]

He's trying to drag you down to his level. But that's not going to happen.

On a side note...with no offense...I would listen at what other historians have to say, opinions and ways to interpret things change...

[karajorma]

I'm happy to listen to both sides of the argument but Trashman isn't supporting his argument so for all I know he's making it up as he goes along. Now if he can present credible evidence putting the figure below the 300,000 total I'm happy to hear it.

[Snail]

He's trying to drag you down to his level.

And then beat him with experience?

* Snail runs

[Mobius]

I'm happy to listen to both sides of the argument but Trashman isn't supporting his argument so for all I know he's making it up as he goes along. Now if he can present credible evidence putting the figure below the 300,000 total I'm happy to hear it.

Such things can't be confirmed. We don't know how to deal with big numbers(when talking about the Universe, when talking about Geology, when talking about genocides)and, at the end, we can't imagine the difference between 300,000 and 350,000 casualties.

They're equally tragic.

He's trying to drag you down to his level.

And then beat him with experience?

* Snail runs

Yes, Es-cargo-t 5. And I will then return where I started!

[karajorma]

Such things can't be confirmed. We don't know how to deal with big numbers(when talking about the Universe, when talking about Geology, when talking about genocides)and, at the end, we can't imagine the difference between 300,000 and 350,000 casualties.

They're equally tragic.

There is however a huge difference between 300,000 and 3000. Wanna try saying that only 60,000 Jews died in the holocaust and see how far that gets you?

[Mobius]

There's a big difference, but we rarely talk about true tragedies. Stalin killed more Ebrews than Hitler. Thousands of Italians died because of Tito and his nationalism. They're nothing but "numbers" to us. These discussions are sad.

[Sarafan]

http://www.stephenbrookes.com/international/2006/4/18/the-murder-of-rios-street-kids.html

First one I could dig up.

I stand corrected.

There's a big difference, but we rarely talk about true tragedies. Stalin killed more Ebrews than Hitler. Thousands of Italians died because of Tito and his nationalism. They're nothing but "numbers" to us. These discussions are sad.

I disagree, they may be numbers for you, but for the thousands who knew people who died in those tragedies they're not. If you think the discussion sad, dont be a part of them.

[Roflcore]

You forgot the chinese, you pissed them off talking to dalai lama

[Hazaanko]

You forgot the chinese, you pissed them off talking to dalai lama

Don't you just love how two people have a conversation and a nation goes ballistic... and other times millions of people's lives are quietly extinguished (*coughIranVietnamcough*) and hardly a word is uttered about them?  Seems like the U.S. offends the world at the drop of a hat these days.