[Gamma_Draconis]

What if relationship between the Vasudans and Terrans started degrading until a new war starts? Both sides are pretty much even in terms of strength and both took massive casualties from the second encounter with the Shivans. The Vasudans have a more developed infrastructure according to info taken from the game but aside from that, both sides have pretty the same military strength and capacities.

[lenard27]

I think the Vasudans would win because of what you said in your post.  They have a more developed infrastructure than the Terrans do.  This even if the two sides fight to a standstill, they better developed Vasudan economy will be the deciding factor in a war that takes any significant length of time

[Goober5000]

What do you mean, the T-V war?

What do you mean, the HOL rebellion?

What do you mean, the GTI rebellion?

What do you mean, the NTF rebellion?

What do you mean?  There are no shortage of ideas... I think a civil war is central to the plot of BWO Inferno Second Great War Part II, for example.

[lenard27]

What do you mean, the T-V war?

What do you mean, the HOL rebellion?

What do you mean, the GTI rebellion?

What do you mean, the NTF rebellion?

What do you mean?  There are no shortage of ideas... I think a civil war is central to the plot of BWO Inferno Second Great War Part II, for example.

I think he meant "What if the Terran-Vasudan War happened again, except after Capella? Who would win?"

[Snail]

What do you mean?  There are no shortage of ideas... I think a civil war is central to the plot of BWO Inferno Second Great War Part II, for example.

Woomeister said that a second Terran-Vasudan War wasn't on the agenda of Inferno. The Het-Ka was part of a much larger rebellion which involved both Terrans and Vasudans. The RVF Mihos was a fighter which could be used by both species.

I think the Vasudans would win because of what you said in your post.  They have a more developed infrastructure than the Terrans do.  This even if the two sides fight to a standstill, they better developed Vasudan economy will be the deciding factor in a war that takes any significant length of time

Well from what I can see I'd have to say there would be a draw. Even if the Vasudan economy was larger, you can easily see in FS2 and FS1 that the Terrans were doing virtually all of the technological advances (Shielding [who stole it first?], better Weapons [the Vasudan weapons sucked so much they needed to steal the Avenger], Target Acquisition and Guidance Missiles, Stealth Fighters, AWACS [the Setekh sucks ass], Remote Beam Cannons, the list goes on).

However, the Vasudans do seem to have a large arsenal of their own. They appear to be much better concentrated with their territory (there are many Terran systems but only five or six Vasudan systems). In addition, most of the Terran economy and military is actually based on the supporting factor of the Vasudans (I can see that many Terran systems are protected by Vasudan fleets).

From what I can see, they are both evenly matched, and it all depends on the plot you're trying to achieve, it can go either way.

(this is another way of saying "whichever side Alpha 1 is on")

[Kie99]

Well from what I can see I'd have to say there would be a draw. Even if the Vasudan economy was larger, you can easily see in FS2 and FS1 that the Terrans were doing virtually all of the technological advances (Shielding [who stole it first?], better Weapons [the Vasudan weapons sucked so much they needed to steal the Avenger], Target Acquisition and Guidance Missiles, Stealth Fighters, AWACS [the Setekh sucks ass], Remote Beam Cannons, the list goes on)

Oh dear...

[Thor]

and you have to remember that we're a politically savvy bunch of guys and have long thrown out the idea of honourable politics.  an Alliance stays in place for as long as it suits us, so i wouldn't be surprised if the GTA was prepared for such eventualities.  given the level of intermixing of the Terrans and Vasudans at the military level (your time on a vasudan ship came across as an uncommon event), its totally possible that Alpha 1 was in a position to receive orders to sabotage the vasudans and make a hasty exit if possible should a civil war happens.  Best example i can think of is Matthew Reilly's 7 Deadly Wonders.  In it the Bad Guys are the Americans and a French/German/Italian group and the Israelis (to a certain extent).  With our heroes being Canadian, Australian, Spanish, Irish, Jamaican, Saudi, New Zealand and Israeli (to a certain extent).  The Americans had done something to our Aussie Hero before the conflict had even occurred, in anticipation of such a conflict, despite the fact the two nations are allies.  From what we know of the Vasudans, they are a more honourable people, and don't seem as likely to be ready to strike against an ally as readily as us fickle humans are.  so I would the first shot in a civil war would be from us getting the drop on the Vasudan's (Wouldn't that be an epic first mission into a campaign....think of the morality you could explore!)

[Snail]

Oh dear...

... My word!

[colecampbell666]

Well from what I can see I'd have to say there would be a draw. Even if the Vasudan economy was larger, you can easily see in FS2 and FS1 that the Terrans were doing virtually all of the technological advances: Remote Beam Cannons, the list goes on).

I believe that the Mjolnir was said to be a joint project. I think that has a code for ships: Egyptian = Vasudan, Greek/Roman = Terran, Norse = joint effort. That's what it seems like to me.

[Snail]

Actually Norse generally means rogue Galactic Terran Intelligence.

But I don't think that the Mjolnir was a joint-effort... I don't remember hearing that.

[Mustang19]

I swear that I heard somewhere that the Mjolnir was a joint effort but I can't find any evidence. It's called the GTSG Mjolnir, implying Terran design. Which again proves that FreeSpace is Terran-centric.

The FreeSpace reference bible lists some of the advantage of each race. The Vasudans are better at space engines and general engineering, with the Terrans being better at "weapons". Considering that the Terrans made pretty much every technological advance and important discovery in the game, plus they're supposed to have "better weapons", I'd say that they'd win.  Also remember that at the end of the TV War the Terrans were very close to Vasuda Prime, while the Vasudans were nowhere near Earth.

Then again, the Vasudans recovered from the Great War much better than the Terrans did, plus the Terrans had lost Capella (a "heavily populated system"... of "250 million"  ) and "most of their fleet" (Petrarch, ending cutscene) by FS2+.

[Snail]

As I said, the Terrans were very close to Vasuda Prime but had not conquered it. I think that Vasudan territory is very concentrated and they have their forces better deployed than the Terrans (the Terrans have their ships scattered throughout their systems while the Vasudans have a better concentration of their forces).

[Dark Hunter]

The Meson Bomb was a joint effort... and of course the Collossus. I believe the GTF Ulysses also used elements of Vasudan engineering.

The Vasudans seem to be belittled in the FS universe. Like others have stated, the Terrans made most of the tech advances in the games, and did most of the fighting in FS2 (there was, I believe, a single Vasudan Battlegroup involved, compared to... what three Terran Fleets?). If the Vasudans were capable of fighting the Terrans to a stalemate (or close to one, anyway), they'd be making just as many advances.

Hmm... I seem to remember the Typhon being described as near-invincible when it was first introduced, or did the TVWP make that up?

Although, I suppose it is possible that all the advances made after the cease-fire was made in FS1 could have been joint efforts. The shield video showed a Vasudan and a Terran working on the shields at the same time, only a bit after the cease-fire. They could have been working together on all the weapons as well. In fact, now that I think about it, perhaps it was Vasudan expertise in drive systems that led to fighter-sized intersystem drives.

[Snail]

The Meson Bomb was a joint effort... and of course the Collossus. I believe the GTF Ulysses also used elements of Vasudan engineering.

True.

The Vasudans seem to be belittled in the FS universe. Like others have stated, the Terrans made most of the tech advances in the games, and did most of the fighting in FS2 (there was, I believe, a single Vasudan Battlegroup involved, compared to... what three Terran Fleets?). If the Vasudans were capable of fighting the Terrans to a stalemate (or close to one, anyway), they'd be making just as many advances.

I don't see how they'd be making so many advances if they haven't been in the Second Great War.

Hmm... I seem to remember the Typhon being described as near-invincible when it was first introduced, or did the TVWP make that up?

It was, it apparently destroyed the Eisenhower and the something'th fleet on its own.

Although, I suppose it is possible that all the advances made after the cease-fire was made in FS1 could have been joint efforts. The shield video showed a Vasudan and a Terran working on the shields at the same time, only a bit after the cease-fire. They could have been working together on all the weapons as well. In fact, now that I think about it, perhaps it was Vasudan expertise in drive systems that led to fighter-sized intersystem drives.

Good points. I'll have to agree with you on this one.


I think the Vasudans would be able to put up a good fight, but I do think the Terrans would win eventually.

[Kie99]

The heavy Terran presence in FS2 is explained by the fact that Capella is a predominantly (exclusively?) Terran system.  Command says it is committed to getting "Every last Terran out of the system" when the plan to destroy the nodes is announced.

[Snail]

Another good point. The Terrans are busy defending that system while the Vasudans have more concentrated forces in their own territory.

[colecampbell666]

Hmm... I seem to remember the Typhon being described as near-invincible when it was first introduced, or did the TVWP make that up?

Well it destroyed a fleet. Is that evidence enough?

[Jeff Vader]

One detail came to my mind. The Interceptor missile was a joint effort, combining a Vasudan-designed engine with a Terran warhead. There, the Vasudans were a part of that achievement, too. And, as already mentioned, the Ulysses was a combined effort as well.

On why it seems that the Vasudans are belittled. Why not? FreeSpace is yet another game purely for entertaining purposes. It would be somewhat demeaning if it was clearly stated and pointed out that the Vasudans are a superior race. Or even equal. No no. We must be the most powerful ones, even in games. Of course it can be said in briefings and such that both of the races are equal but you mostly hear about Terran achievements, so that the player can possibly feel proud of his race, like 'Yeah, we kick arse'. It is also why the Vasudans weren't that dangerous an opponent in the beginning of FS1. You gotta feel like you could take them all on yourself. That is also why the Shivans, who presumably annihilated countless civilizations, started to drop like flies once you got to use something as deadly as the Avenger cannon.

[Snail]

IMO, to round it all off for me, the Terrans are good, but I don't think they would completely annihilate the Vasudans.

[admiral_wolf]

When the Typhoon entry was first written, all the GTA had was the Apollo with the ML16, MX50 and Fury.  I'd like to see someone take down an Orion with an Anubis.

Back to topic however, the T-V war lasted 14 years and was a war of attrition, with both sides facing stalemate with rapidly depleting resources.  Although we now have moved forward 32 years, even with the advancement of technologies, we would be in the same situation.

Which ironically, is what the current state of affairs is.  We are both nomads, searching for either a new home in the case of the Vasudans, or in our case, a way home.  It would make no sense to split as both sides would lose.  The GTVA General Assembly must be prepared to make concessions on both sides.