[Mefustae]

I seem to remember the UK discussing giving up their membership to the Nuclear Club a few years back.

[captain-custard]

I thought you gave your launch codes to the UN or something?

i dont thhink we ever had them , and if we did at the flik off a switch ( so to speak) they would stop going on there merry way ,i think are nukes were more related to NATO than the UN

I seem to remember the UK discussing giving up their membership to the Nuclear Club a few years back.

yip but that was b4 the sudo socialists realised they were christian democrats

[Kosh]

Ok, this is nothing but a big "**** you" by Bush, not only does the navy not need to do it there, it doesn't need to do it at all. There is no conceivable threat that justifies having a navy of this size. I wonder sometimes if Congress spends all that money on useless defense projects just so they physically can't spend any more on education and social services.

The reason for the bloated defence budget is because of major lobbying efforts by the coperations involved in the Military Industrial Complex. Eisenhower warned us in his farewell address that if we weren't careful, something like this would happen. We were not careful, and the Prophecy of Eisenhower has in fact come to pass, and many of us don't even realize it. This is beyond partisan politics, and it is a danger to everything we grew up believing.

We all need to ask ourselves why we fight.

[Flipside]

Many of the missiles are locked into targets iirc, however, if we wanted to change them to be wholly accurate then yes, we'd need to use the American positioning system, which requires permission, however, it's theoretically possible to use GPS, which isn't nearly as accurate, but only to a factor of a few hundred metres, when you're talking about Thermonuclear Warheads, I'm not sure a few hundred metres will make much of a difference.

[captain-custard]

Many of the missiles are locked into targets iirc, however, if we wanted to change them to be wholly accurate then yes, we'd need to use the American positioning system, which requires permission, however, it's theoretically possible to use GPS, which isn't nearly as accurate, but only to a factor of a few hundred metres, when you're talking about Thermonuclear Warheads, I'm not sure a few hundred metres will make much of a difference.

mmmmm with out trying to sound like im pushing this to its extremes, but last time i looked gps wasnt freeware, as far as i understand its still owned by the american military! so if they refuse to let u fire on the iirc, i think they mite just stop the gps at he same time, the uk has no real independent nuclear weapon

[Flipside]

If America turns off the GPS entirely, it also loses it's own ability to target missiles, track troops etc, they could try to lock the system, but there's no such thing as a 100% safe lock. Turning it off entirely would pretty much cripple both Armies.

I should clarify here that what I'm talking about is, basically, hacking, there's nothing legal or acceptable about it, and I vastly doubt it would ever be done, but I wouldn't be surprised if the facilities are in place already. The only way the American Military could make the GPS available to civilians was to make the 'civilian version' less accurate, however, that problem was overcome in a matter of weeks.

Trident etc are American designed delivery systems, it's true, but the UK own a great number of them, with UK made warheads. In fact, Parliament decided to start renewing our Trident delivery systems with more modern nuclear subs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_missile

[NGTM-1R]

If America turns off the GPS entirely, it also loses it's own ability to target missiles, track troops etc, they could try to lock the system, but there's no such thing as a 100% safe lock. Turning it off entirely would pretty much cripple both Armies.

Not true.

There is an "encoded" GPS system setting, because it was developed during the Cold War, and the US knew the Russkies might want to use it too. Its use has been considered before; for example, during Gulf One, but it's never been activated. However the US does have the ability to turn the GPS system off for the rest of the world.

However saying that the UK doesn't have the ability to retarget their missiles on their own is ludicrious. One of the reasons they have an independant nuclear deterrent was in case the worst-case scenario somehow came about and the US was knocked out before it could reply, so those missiles can be targeted, launched, and do their thing under the circumstances that the US no longer exists. Besides, for accurate targeting with a circle of error inside 20 meters on a Trident, all you really need is the precise launch posistion; they use inertial guidance. If worse comes to worse you could just launch them from dockside.

[Flipside]

Exactly my point really, the UK has it's own collection of Nuclear Weapons, and our nuclear capability is not, or need not be, reliant on American Targeting systems, it's not as if Cities are famous for their mobility, so as long as you have co-ordinates for launch and target, you don't really need in-flight monitoring, the missile can sort itself out. Those that DO use GPS aren't as 'secure' as people think, but from what I recall, most of the American ICBMs in the UK are hard-targetted on locations in Russia anyway.

[karajorma]

Not to mention that missiles using GPS and sat-nav would never get there anyway since they'll be directed down a one way street and give up after being told to turn right at the next available opportunity.

[achtung]

But, we like waving our big dic.... NAVY in the face of other nations!


Sarcasm, in case someone doesn't catch it.

[karajorma]

Compensating?

[NGTM-1R]

Exactly my point really, the UK has it's own collection of Nuclear Weapons, and our nuclear capability is not, or need not be, reliant on American Targeting systems, it's not as if Cities are famous for their mobility, so as long as you have co-ordinates for launch and target, you don't really need in-flight monitoring, the missile can sort itself out. Those that DO use GPS aren't as 'secure' as people think, but from what I recall, most of the American ICBMs in the UK are hard-targetted on locations in Russia anyway.

Default setting, as it were; back in 1999 a Russian SSBN captain was quoted as saying his missiles' targets had not been changed since 1982; so until they point them somewhere else...

I know that the Trident system is designed to allow storing several sets of target coordinates in memory, though, and you can keep more aboard the sub and change them out underway. Ohio captains have been quoted before as saying they can launch at any nuclear-capable nation in the world within three minutes of recieving a launch order, and most of that time is spent turning keys. (Yes, even South Africa and Isreal. I've heard, though not officially, they even have solutions for Taiwan, which has never admitted having nuclear weapons but probably does.)