[Snail]

They could create heat generators . . . 

No need for that...

If it's too cold, add Chloro Fluoro Carbons (dump a load of used fridges on it) or other things the environmentalists are griping about. If it's got an atmosphere, CFCs would trap heat in and make it warmer. Once it's warm enough, adding water would be easy: completely melting the polar icecaps of the planet (assuming it has any) would get a good amount of water, or enough to make a little lake, at least. Then you could add some vegetation to create a breathable atmosphere.

If it's too warm, call environmentalists.

[General Battuta]

It's safe to assume that years of training are required for even simple jobs in the Fleet.

There may be a bottleneck in training facilities or training officers.

[Mars]

We know that a densely populated system has a few hundred million people... and we know there's a given number of systems in the GTVA. We can deduce that the military probably isn't the entire population. Ass

We can assume from the ease of space travel that it wouldn't take much effort for the GTVA to use space resources (gas giants, asteroids, ect). Since ships run of of deuterium getting fuel isn't a problem, and given the shear bulk of resources  in space it's doubtful there's any lack for the GTVA.

Thus the GTVA has a huge bulk of industrial resources, and a small population; it's pretty obvious that they're going to have a lack human resources if they wanted to make a Huge Fleet of Doom^TM simply because that is the only resource which isn't readily available.

[AlphaOne]

Well agreed . We do know that the GTVA has some problems regarding population but they are nowhere near as bad. And on one hand a solution to theyr problems was provided by the Capella destruction. I mean here you have a HUGE workforce which can be put to work in the newly discovered sistems developing them etc. And you can bet at least 10 or 20% of those ppl are suited for milatary duties. This would mean what several million young ppl fit for milatary duties. Now all the GTVA has to do is get its arse into gear and start full production of the new classes of Destroyers especialy the Vasudan Hatshepsut.

Hell with the succes the vasudan destroyer ha we might even see some sort of vaiant beeing done in a joint effort for the terrans . That is if the terrans dont do some sort of new class of destroyer to replace the Orion's.

Either way untill the GTVA has some sort of standardization implemented things are gonna go half speed . I mean what the GTVA needs is unified ship building tech.

That would increase the speed and quality at which ships are beeing built. Beam cannons would become more advanced since both species would be working toghether to get both damage and range and reire rates better. So intead of each race taking its own way in this we would have double the resources to achieve the same result.

Anyway i believe that for a while Deimos and Sobek construction is gooing to hit the roof since they are a lot cheaper faster to produce and require less crew to operate them. They are fast and cand handle fighter/bommber attack very well. This will be done for a short amount of time however since they will also have to build bigger ships . But just imagine every available shipyard equiped to build corvettes gooing full speed for half a year perhaps more. That is a lot of new corvettes.

[TrashMan]

We know that a densely populated system has a few hundred million people.

Densely populated does not automatically imply that it's a HEAVILY populated place. A small crowded town is densely populated for instance.

As far as I'm concerned the population of GTVA system is a mystery, as it's impossible to extrapolate from just 1-2 numbers with any satisfactory accuracy.

[karajorma]

Densely populated does not automatically imply that it's a HEAVILY populated place. A small crowded town is densely populated for instance.

However unless it has a large number of such towns the country that town is in is NOT densely populated. And the briefing quite clearly states that it's the system that is densely populated not any particular planet.

[BS403]

Personally I believe that most of the Humans population was in SOL.  This is how I see it: The GTA started a 14 year war shortly after they found subspace.  During this time they would focus mostly on Military technology and bases with less focus on moving large portions of their population to new worlds.  I would say that the Population of all humans is 20 -30 billion tops. and I'd say at least half lived in the SOL system.

[AlphaOne]

Make it 3/4 of the population lived in Sol and you are credible. However one must not underestimate the human instinct of survival and procreation i mean for all we know each colonist that was trapped outside Sol could of had between 2 and 10 children depending on the number of wives . Who knows all we know is that capella a realatively new sistem became desly populated.

Also ppl must not forget that the majoraty of the refugees made it out of Capella in one piece. All you had left of the convoi were a few transports. You could not of had more then 200 k ppl in those transports so that means almost 250 million civilians just managed to escape death by a hear's breat.

[ShadowGorrath]

And weren't there in Capella only 1 or 2 fleets? The Terran one and the Vasudan one. I mean- only local ones, and that the GTVA didn't risk pulling out fleets from places like Ross128, Delta Serpentis, etc.

[TrashMan]

However unless it has a large number of such towns the country that town is in is NOT densely populated. And the briefing quite clearly states that it's the system that is densely populated not any particular planet.

Maybe Capella III (or whichever planet it was) is a small planet and the only habitable one. That would make it densely populated (since habitable area is the only thing you look at).

[Mars]

But it said the SYSTEM was densely populated NOT the PLANET

[MechMantis]

I somewhat remember the mission(s) involved, and I certainly remember thinking how hard it was to keep ALL the transports alive.


You were only part of the escort. So what if a very very large number of freighters were destroyed en-route to the jump node, and only 250 million survived the slaughter?


I wouldn't put it past the Shivans to be able to pull something like that off.

[Mobius]

How can you discuss the density of the population? We know nothing about the total number of GTVA citizens and comments like "not densely populated" don't really tell us a lot.

[AlphaOne]

First of all the only horrific losses that were registered in Capella are the loss of so many warships. However even if the GTA lost a lot of warships the shivans must have lost even more not to mention at least 4 or 5 times the fighters.

Anyway there are poeple here that seem to believe that only a hand full of Capellan civilians were evacuated. WRONG!

May i remind everyone that Capella was beeing evacuated since the first sighting of the Shivan jugg. And they did not stop the evacuation even after the first jugg was taken out. Now if a argo class transport has enough room to acomodate the crew of a destroyer which is about 10k then imagine a total number of just 50 Argo class transports making regular jump to evacuate everyone non stop for at least 2 or 3 days. you have 500 k ppl beeing evacuated in less then 1 hour asuming everithing was planned carefully.


Nevertheless even the debriefing states the majoraty of the population was already evacuated at the time the capella sun went nova and we can asume that the few hundreds of thousands that were still in sistem were a part of the total numbers of capellan lost due to shivan attack on the trasports or the nova.

Either way Capella was the base of the Terran 5'th Fleet . And if emory serves me right it was also the base of operations for the Aquitane. Also the Phoenicia if im not mistaken was also a part of Capella t'th fleet was it not??

Wow 2 Hecates in one fleet? And we can rest asured that they must of had at least 1 Orion there . This leads me to believe that the GTVA fleet was much larger then we give it credit.

Also this bring a disturbing question to mind if the GTVA fleet was this large and it was but a mere shadow of its former glory then how big was the PVN/GTA fleet originaly????

[Colonol Dekker]

Argo's can't carry ten thousand people. Heck by that logic the hermes (the pod with about 5 windows and a roof hatch) can carry two and a half thousand if 4.ish in total left every destroyer blowing up.

[TrashMan]

But it said the SYSTEM was densely populated NOT the PLANET

If you only got a few small habitable places, the system is densely populated...only habitable ares are counted towards population density.

[ShadowGorrath]

Hey ! What are you discussing here- Capella's population or GTVA fleets? Cause the topic title says otherwise.

[Mars]

[AlphaOne]

Well heres is my 2 cents regarding the strenght crew wise of the GTVA fleets. I mean there must have been at least 2 trained cews per ship. This would only be a logical choice since crews need R&R vacations etc. So my belief is that the GTVA actualy has all the crews it needs to man all the ships they need in order to replenish the losses and perhaps add some more warships. Now the only real problem i see here is in a year or 2 when those crews would be tired and sick of looking out of the window of a warship. However by that time the GTVA should of had time to train at least part of the replacement crews they need .


As for the actual number of pilots lost while there were quite a number of them lost the same thing can be said like it was for the crews of the warships. I mean you can have pilots that were not active in the milatary anymore recalled back into active duty at least for a while. Also you can pull out all the reserve orces you have left.

Also new pilots can be brough into service aboard destroyers from the various stations around GTVA. sure they wont be that much but they will be more then enough to give the GTVA time to replenish their ranks.


As for the NTF fleets well they had 3 fleets and more then 10 destroyers but they also had a masive amount of smaller warships when you look at it packed into just 3 sistems well 2 originaly.


And while i do not believe the GTVA to asign 5 destroyers per sistem at the very least 1 destroyer would be allowed. This would be depending on the various reasons they would have to asign more then just 1 destroyer.


to put it another way the war with the NTF and the shivans was a bloody one il give you that bu the amount of casualties suffered during the second shivan war are a laugh compared to the First great war.

from my POV the shivans barely managed to inflict a deep enough wound to make the GTVA feel the pain compared to the almost death blow that they dealt during the Lucifer massacre.

With this beeing said we must also remember that now the GTVA has new tech available to it . So in a sence we can expect the GTVA to become even more powerfull and there is not just a high degree of probabilaty but actualy a certainty that the GTVA will eventualy manage to develop beam cannons equal if not superior to those of the shivans. Hell basicly out tech the shivans sooner or later. It all depends on the amount of resources and men they asigns to the R&D departments of the GTVA .


To summarize the GTVA is now at about 70% cappacity a bit tired and lets face it a bit starving. Nothing a good rest and good meal wont fix coupled with some money spending.

[karajorma]

If you only got a few small habitable places, the system is densely populated...only habitable ares are counted towards population density.

No.

By your logic Alaska, Siberia and the Sahara are densely populated.

You were only part of the escort. So what if a very very large number of freighters were destroyed en-route to the jump node, and only 250 million survived the slaughter?

A small task force will oversee the demolition of the Knossos while the bulk of the allied fleet blockades the jump node leading to the densely-populated Capella system. Command has begun the process of evacuating the two hundred fifty million civilians inhabiting Capella, the largest exodus since the Great War.

As you can quite clearly see the comment was from the first Sathanas' entry to Capella not when the Shivans invaded with 80 juggernauts. So no slaughter of civilians is likely. The Shivan forces in Capella apart from the Sathanas itself at the time were light.