[Snail]

I meant in FS1, the only ones I could name are one of the Hellions and the Zenith. I believe 2 Liliths were part of the Eva's battlegroup, but I forget their designation.

[Mobius]

Why would we limit the discussion to FS1?

[Snail]

I don't know.

Anyway, the Hela is the only Lilith in the FS2 campaign.

[Mobius]

That's probably why the Lilith has one LRed, used that ship once in FS2 and didn't realize it was overkill.

[Jeff Vader]

Do we accept Silent Threat? There was one Lilith in the Hellfire group.

[Snail]

Well yeah Silent Threat is canon...

[terran_emperor]

I meant in FS1, the only ones I could name are one of the Hellions and the Zenith. I believe 2 Liliths were part of the Eva's battlegroup, but I forget their designation.

They were designated Genma Wing i think...Sounds like someone was a Ranma 1/2 fan

Do we accept Silent Threat? There was one Lilith in the Hellfire group.

I accept the story line from ST as canon, but not the missions. ST was in my opinion a late-Alpha/Beta build of the campaign IMHO and was thus incomplete

[Droid803]

That's probably why the Lilith has one LRed, used that ship once in FS2 and didn't realize it was overkill.

Its also because it had to be stronger than the Cain, but there is no MRed.
Its also why the Moloch is pissweak.
I have a feeling we've been through this before.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I have a feeling we've been through this before.

    This thread is on page 16

[Droid803]

I have a feeling we've been through this before.

    This thread is on page 16

Why indeed. We're gong in circles

[Excalibur]

I played that mission the other day (Their Finest Hour - though it isn't really) and realised how annoying the Lilith is to stop (in hard). The "fleet" gets destroyed pretty quickly, and the LRed never seems to cease firing...
But then I used trebs on it and disarmed and disabled it 
EDIT: all with the almost full hull integrity of 3% !

[Stormkeeper]

The reason you should always disable the LRed, do that and the Lilith becomes a heavily armoured Cain.

[General Battuta]

That one mission in Blue Planet where you had to scramble around disabling the two Ravanas, one Moloch, and two Liliths was a nightmare. Mostly because of the Liliths.

It's weird how a cruiser can seem more deadly than a destroyer, if only because its anti-fighter weapons cover a greater relative percentage of its surface area.

[Stormkeeper]

... Actually, the Lilith has only one AAAF beam, located beneath and to the rear. Iirc, it can't hit targets behind it. Remove it and the Lilith is easy prey for a well flown fighter.

[Mars]

Provided said fighter has several minutes to spend strafing said Lilith while ignoring everything else in the mission.

[Stormkeeper]

Lol, true. We still need to remember its one tough cookie to crack. Twin Helios will only dent its armour.

[Iranon]

Well, what can't a lone fighter do with enough time?

The GTVA doesn't need to build ships like the Lilith because they have Maxims... only they never use the huge edge they have.

[Stormkeeper]

They need massive scale Maxims. Like the gauss cannon I made.

[Black Wolf]

I don't think comparing naval vessels to FS vessels is a good analogy. Not to mention that the way damage and HP work in games has nothing to do with RL at all. Lilith was just a poor balance job.

Wha? Aren't you the same Trashman who in several threads tried to prove that battleships in FS would be massively more powerful than any other ship class ever specifically by doing exactly that?

I don't really understand this argument. I read 16 pages (well, about 12 - I skimmed all the WW2 stuff) and basically got... nowhere. Canon is canon. The lilith is canon. [V] had time to change it, they had time to balance it, they chose not to. Hell, creating an MRed would have taken all of, what, a minute? Maybe 10 if they wanted to put new beam effects on it.
Thus, the Lilith as it exists now is canon. Various real world examples have been posted to support the potential existence of a ship like this, they're ignored. The Abercrombie is perfect - so it's got speed instead of strength - speed, back in the day, was probably of equivalent value to strength in FS2 as they both translate directly into battlefield survivability.

Why on earth is rarity or expense not a valid balancing point for the lilith? (In the insane world where you need balance against a killing machine in a fighter who is perfectly capable of killing any ship in the game, or for that matter, the insane world where you need balance in a shipset of a game where balancing occurs at the mission design phase)

More to the point, what are the anti-Lilith people hoping to accomplish? Wide ranging consensus that the Lilith is a silly ship that will mean absolutely nothing because everyone will continue using it because its canon? So, even if you "win", it's utterly meaningless.

Think about the Lilith from a FREDding perspective. Here we have a small Shivan ship that can't launch fighters, but can utterly maul a cruiser or a corvette 90% of the time. That right there is storytelling gold. Or you have aq ship that looks like a Cain, command mistake it for a cain and boom - awesome mission fodder. You people should be loving the Lilith, loving that [V] gave us this amazingly cool, hyper powered ship and made it canon, loving the mission potential of the thing

I just don't understand it.

[General Battuta]

You are a wise man, BlackWolf. I think your points are the closest this thread has come to a conclusion so far, and while they are doubtless going to be disputed, I think they're very strong.