[ShadowGorrath]

In FS1 the Shivan fleet wasn't large enough for the Shivans to go through everything without fearing to be destroyed. They had to use at least some tactics. And the Lucifer had a lot of work to do, plus I think the Shivans onboard the Lucifer knew that their shields didn't work in subspace, and just didn't want to risk the GTA and PVN finding out how to use that weakness.

In FS2 the Shivans had a goal, and very strong ships. They didn't need to bother with tactics any more, as any loss was replaced by more stronger ships.

Those nodes leading from Sol could have been either very weak, or already colapsed at the events of FS1. Shivans have much more advanced knowledge of subspace, and can use weak jump nodes ( this rules out the Sol-Deneb and Sol-Beta Aquilae nodes being weak ), so it's unlikely that they couldn't detect the other 2 Sol nodes.

[Al Tarket]

however your own sources indicate that the shivans have a sensitivity to subspace. i would say it's impossible for the shivans not to know such a thing.

[Jeff Vader]

how can you be certain though? canon is just a reference from one point, it doesn't mean its 100% accurate .

I can be certain that there were over 80 Saths in Capella, since it is stated in the game and anything stated in the game is canon. Which translates as reliable info. We can speculate about the existence of other juggs somewhere in the FS universe, but so far there have been no canon references to such things -> claiming that there are hundreds of Saths is speculation, nothing more. Speculation can be fun, I admit that, but it doesn't automatically mean you are right.

[Snail]

Your theories are nothing if they are directly contradicted by canon.

[Akalabeth Angel]

In FS1 the Shivan fleet wasn't large enough for the Shivans to go through everything without fearing to be destroyed. They had to use at least some tactics. And the Lucifer had a lot of work to do, plus I think the Shivans onboard the Lucifer knew that their shields didn't work in subspace, and just didn't want to risk the GTA and PVN finding out how to use that weakness.

In FS2 the Shivans had a goal, and very strong ships. They didn't need to bother with tactics any more, as any loss was replaced by more stronger ships.

      Eh, I don't know why people are even comparing the two events. They're not at all similar.
      FS1, the Shivans are actually going to war with the GTA and PVE. It's an invasion.
      FS2 isn't really an invasion. We see the Shivans in four systems, the Binary, the Nebula, Gamma Draconis and Capella. They never go past that, they don't strike into the systems. Basically they move from the Binary, to Capella, do their thing and leave.
 
      Whereas in FS1 they attack Ross 128, then they attack Antares, and Ribos, and Vasuda and Beta Aquilae (the base anyway) and Alpha Centauri, probably Deneb and of course Sol. Most of the GTVA losses in FS2 probably would've been avoided if they just got out of the nebula, got out of Gamma Draconis and got out of Capella and just stayed in the other systems and let the Shivans do their thing (once Bosch intervened of course).


       And regardless of what people think about FS1. The Lucifer was unstoppable. Nothing the GTA or PVE had could even put a dent in it. It could've smashed every Typhon and Orion in the universe and not been the worse for wear. Until of course, they discovered subspace tracking. Yeah the Shivans didnt have a lot of ships, but neither did the Allies.

[admiral_wolf]

It might be that these nodes whilst existing, maybe too unstable for travel.

[Jake2447]

cant be
the galatea uses both the sol-beta aquilae and the sol-deneb nodes when travelling to deneb to blockade the deneb-vasuda node

[Droid803]

You know the mission where all three nodes are in a tight triangle?
I would speculate that a Lucifer blowing up there might knock out all three. Who's to say the ones from Sol aren't like that?

[NGTM-1R]

It would handly explain why the Bastion was deployed inside Capella and the Nereid was supposed to travel to the Capella end of the Vega-Capella node before detonating if they're worried about triggering a systemwide collapse of stable nodes.

[Al Tarket]

what conflicts with freespace canon is you only ever encounter 2 juggernaughts the whole game, except that suicide mission where you encounter the SJD (decoy). and words are just words unless there is proof to back that. as how would you know if your right? were you at capella when the juggernaught fleet arrived and did you count all 80 +? it kinda questions the entire canon of fs2 capella incident .

i will be back later to answer back, hopefully a good question to answer to .

[Droid803]

The player didn't count, but GTVA Command did.
Hard facts like this (not speculation by Command), is Canon, whether you like it or not.
There's also the command brief with all the Saths flying to Capella, and the Command brief with the Saths around Capella, pulsating.
And then, there's the "Capella Goes Boom" cutscene.
You actually see more than two Saths in-flight.

- Sath 1: Killed by Colossus, amongst other things
- Sath 2: Kills GVD Spamtik
- Sath 3: DIVE! DIVE! DIVE!
- Sath 4: Kills Colossus

The rest are SJDs.

[Jeff Vader]

the SJD (decoy)

*cough* "Distance". They're not decoys. They are actual Sathanasaseses, but since they're at a distance, there's no reason to use actual Sathanas models.

and words are just words unless there is proof to back that. as how would you know if your right? were you at capella when the juggernaught fleet arrived and did you count all 80 +? it kinda questions the entire canon of fs2 capella incident .

I take it you don't believe in admiral Ahmose either. You know, the Vasudan renegade admiral who launched a fierce offensive against the NTF Iceni during the first SOC loop mission, even though the GTVA especially insisted on ignoring the NTF during that operation. You never see him. You only hear a few words about him. Surely he is not real, but just lies and deceit. Surely...

And the same holds true for admiral Petrarch, lieutenant Samsa and the whole lot. You never see them. Only hear them. How do you know that they are actual people in the FreeSpace universe instead of, oh I don't know... voice actors whose sole purpose is to partially provide you with an exciting experience while fighting for the GTVA.

[NGTM-1R]

what conflicts with freespace canon is you only ever encounter 2 juggernaughts the whole game, except that suicide mission where you encounter the SJD (decoy). and words are just words unless there is proof to back that. as how would you know if your right? were you at capella when the juggernaught fleet arrived and did you count all 80 +? it kinda questions the entire canon of fs2 capella incident .

Now you're just going off the deep end. If you're going to say that, you might as well just stop talking, because nobody's going to listen to a word of it.

Besides, it's three. (Colossus killed, Colossus' killer, and the one that nearly ran you over in Into the Lion's Den.)

[Jeff Vader]

Besides, it's three. (Colossus killed, Colossus' killer, and the one that nearly ran you over in Into the Lion's Den.)

So you think that the ship that destroyed the Psamtik in Straight, No Chaser wasn't actually a Sathanas? Or that it was one of those three you just listed?

[NGTM-1R]

I have no excuse.

[Snail]

Al Tarket:

Your theories are nothing if they are directly contradicted by canon.

[castor]

Uh, canon states that there were 80 (or something) Saths at Capella.
Speculating that there was more does not contradict canon -- there could be more, but it is just guesswork.

[Snail]

Uh, canon states that there were 80 (or something) Saths at Capella.
Speculating that there was more does not contradict canon -- there could be more, but it is just guesswork.

It is contradictory to canon, however, to say that there were "several hundred" Saths in Capella, because as we've seen, there were only 80. So Al Tarket is talking crap there.

[Jeff Vader]

It's all about the choice of words. "I think there might be several hundred Saths" is ok, since it is pure speculation. Speculation is not wrong, we are allowed to think for ourselves, as long as we admit that we're exceeding the information provided by the canon sources. "There are several hundred Saths" is wrong, since that explicitly claims that there are more Saths than what has been stated in canon. It is a deliberate, arrogant and unproven claim.

[castor]

"There are several hundred Saths" is wrong, since that explicitly claims that there are more Saths than what has been stated in canon. It is a deliberate, arrogant and unproven claim.

Agreed. Yet the enthusiasm to defend the canon seems to go a bit overborad at times? I mean, canon is what was written by years ago, nothing that could be said here will change that.

If someone makes an occasional non-canon statement why not just read it as what it is, speculation? Most of the time the non-canon alarm going off at the slightest slip seem to just break/derail the discussion instead of doing anything good.