[Flipside]

Well, as I've said previously, I'd like it to happen, but not yet, we aren't capable of dealing with it from either a resource or a social point of view.

I have no doubt whatsoever that it WILL happen one day, but I think it's going to be good few generations before it does, and I think that is for the best on the large scale, even if it isn't from a personal perspective.

Edit: One place I can see such treatments being utilised is if we choose to start using things like 'Generation ships' to find other habitable planets etc, once we have the space and resources to live longer as a race, then things will be a lot less pressured on Earth.

[MP-Ryan]

There are much smarter people in the world who see this kind of research as a real discipline in its own right. Yet you're saying that it is never going to happen? Never, ever?

It would require a complete restructuring of our gene, chromatin, and chromosome repair systems coupled with the ability to make in vivo changes in whole organisms, plus a reprogramming of both the antibody- and cell-mediated immune responses (to deal with cancer).  I personally don't believe such advances are possible, because for each system altered we're required to alter all its component and related systems - and this is just at the nucleotide/gene level, nevermind physical structure.  Essentially, you'd have to recreate the entire human organism from the genetic level.

Considering our evolution to date took approximately 2.8 billion years from a single cell to the present and our current level of advancement, I don't see biologic al immortality as a realistic possibility in the future of the human species.  In order for such a thing to be possible, the species would not be able to exist in its present genotypic or phenotypic form.

[Daeron]

I never claimed cancer could be prevented, see my earlier post. I do think that in the future, we can specifically target cancerous cells during treatment.

[Flipside]

I think extension is possible, I don't think immortality is, however, for all we know, cutting out the problems we know exist will create a whole batch that we didn't, but if you consider that, less than 70 years after the first powered flight we were strolling around on the moon, I suppose making definitive comments on the future is difficult to do with accuracy.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I think extension is possible, I don't think immortality is, however, for all we know, cutting out the problems we know exist will create a whole batch that we didn't, but if you consider that, less than 70 years after the first powered flight we were strolling around on the moon, I suppose making definitive comments on the future is difficult to do with accuracy.

Well, some people did think, 13 years ago, that we'll be using much more modern transport by now...

[blackhole]

This thread is screaming to have a science fiction novel written around it.

[Spicious]

We aren't talking about removing a parasite from on or in a cell here, we are talking about tinkering with things at a sub-cellular level. Like Stem Cell treatment etc, they are a completely different ball game from pasteurisation, antiseptics and other hygeine based products, one focuses on preventing infection, the other on treating them, one has no impact on the cells themselves, other than preventing infection, the other is all about affecting the cells directly.

How is saying outside cell good, inside cell bad not entirely arbitrary?

[Daeron]

This thread is screaming to have a science fiction novel written around it.

It's a Brave New World with such people in it.

[Flipside]

We aren't talking about removing a parasite from on or in a cell here, we are talking about tinkering with things at a sub-cellular level. Like Stem Cell treatment etc, they are a completely different ball game from pasteurisation, antiseptics and other hygeine based products, one focuses on preventing infection, the other on treating them, one has no impact on the cells themselves, other than preventing infection, the other is all about affecting the cells directly.

How is saying outside cell good, inside cell bad not entirely arbitrary?

I didn't make a judgement on 'Good' or 'Bad', I said they were different, and that extending life in the current world-situation is not a wise course. Good or Bad doesn't even come into it, for about the eighth time.

[Spicious]

They are different in method, but rather the same in goal.

[Mars]

It's the difference between lubricating the engine, and redesigning it.

[Flipside]

They are different in method, but rather the same in goal.

One is prevention, the other is treatment. You could say that anything medically related has the same goal, that doesn't mean they are all the same thing.

[Spicious]

It's the difference between lubricating the engine, and redesigning it.

Good, this engine needs a good redesign. It's obviously poorly designed; whichever supreme being came up with it should be very ashamed.

One is prevention, the other is treatment. You could say that anything medically related has the same goal, that doesn't mean they are all the same thing.

Isn't prevention usually better than treatment?
And why is any of this a reason not to pursue this area of research? Just in case it leads to something bad?

[Flipside]

Hygiene is prevention, sub-cellular alteration would probably best be described as immunisation, and like all immunisation, there's no promise that the 'disease' being treated won't adapt to it.

Like antibiotics, there's no promise that anything we do will be permanent, biology changes constantly, which is another reason why we have to understand precisely what we are doing before we start fiddling on any large scale, the worst case scenario is that we put ourselves back at square one, or make some change that leaves us vulnerable in another way, or does some damage that doesn't even reveal itself until much later.

That's why we have to be careful, and we have to be sure.

Edit: It's a trap even a fair number of scientists fall into frequently, they assume that Man is the end product of evolution, and forget that our own bodies are evolving and mutating with each generation, as well as every organism around it.

[WMCoolmon]

This thread is screaming to have a science fiction novel written around it.

Isaac Asimov's Elijah Baley novels explore the sociological effects of the idea, to some extent. I wouldn't read them just for this, but I would read them because they're totally awesome.

[Flipside]

Also, check out some of the stuff by Kurt Vonnegut Jr, particuarly his short stories like 2BR02B.

[TrashMan]

Good, this engine needs a good redesign. It's obviously poorly designed; whichever supreme being came up with it should be very ashamed.

"Hello? Yes we can reserve a table for one. What name? Spicious? Allright, done..Yeah Chief, we'll make sure he has a pleasant stay at Hell's Inn."

[Spicious]

I could give examples, but in the spirit of this thread I have to go with not a problem, I plan to live forever.

[TrashMan]

*readies pistol*

You sure about that? The living forever part?

No, seriously, humanity is not ready for this. It probably never will be.

[MP-Ryan]

I never claimed cancer could be prevented, see my earlier post. I do think that in the future, we can specifically target cancerous cells during treatment.

We can do that now.

However, ALL types of cancer treatment rely on an immune system that is still capable of killing cancerous cells because (1) no treatment reaches every part of the human body and (2) treatment doesn't catch cells on their way to becoming cancerous.  People think of cancer as a discrete disease - it's not.  Cancer is an ongoing process that happens to cells in our body every single day of our lives.  It's when that process gets out of hand and is not countered by the immune system that things get ugly.

So regardless of cellular targeting, the immune system must be an integral component of any comprehensive strategy to combat cancer.  As I already mentioned, viral solutions are very real and a promising means of destroying manifest cancer cells.  Most current research is focussing specifically on adenovirus as a delivery mechanism.