[Vertigo 7]

ok some have already seen this and others haven't so here ya go!




Brand-X has been teaching me a lot, as have others on IRC. I still got a ways to go but its mostly all texturing now. I think this will come out fairly well =D

[chief1983]

Normally I hate when people say this, but I'm thinking that nose might be a bit too long.  I know you're trying to avoid copying the model from XvT or whatever, but something a little more like that cutscene pic from TIE Fighter might be better.  Its' a bit stubbier but still not a short little block.  You're getting better though it looks like.

[StarSlayer]

To be honest i think the proportions on that version are way off, your earlier Truespace attempt captured them much closer http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gbwholetempfq9.jpg.   The traditional AssBoat from TIE Fighter looks a lot more stubby and robust.  


Comparing yours to the original (though i wouldn't use the textures; what Imperial craft has 1) Color 2) rust ? )

1) the nose should be shorter, blunter and the canopy larger
2) the engine/missile bay should be fatter.
3) All the wings should be a bit more thicker and robust, they seem very delicate on this version .   The main horizontal stabilizers seem a bit to long while the auxiliary vertical stabilizers seem to small.  I would check the angling as well
4) the main fuselage should be in general more robust and chunky

Sorry if its a bit of a laundry list but I've always found getting the proportions down as being the most important part of creating something.  

[brandx0]

I agree about the texture.  In general I've always argued that the Gunboat feels too rebel to be an imperial craft.  I just plain don't like it one bit. 

[Wanderer]

Hmm.. Skipray Blastboats were imperial small crafts weren't they... and they do seem to have Color (more or less) in them... (well.. at least the ones i found with quick search)

[brandx0]

I'm not a big fan of the Skispray either.

[IceFire]

I agree about the texture.  In general I've always argued that the Gunboat feels too rebel to be an imperial craft.  I just plain don't like it one bit. 

Doesn't it look like the Lambda shuttle to you?  When I saw it for the first time thats what I thought...it seemed very Imperial.

[swashmebuckle]

Let her rust!  I think the Gunboat would make a great older ship, like say it was a mainstay in the Republic fleet that has been totally superseded by the TIE Bomber or its predecessors, but there are still a lot of them in use by smaller organizations, pirates etc.  You would have to strip down its capabilities from the TG games (like 8 torps, no ions, flies like a brick) to make it work in that role, but it seems to me that SW can always use more crappy older ships flying around, especially ones that do look somewhat recognizably SW.  That would give neutral forces a bomber (the only other option I can think of would be Y-wings, which, as the mainstay of the rich Alliance, are probably too pricey for pirates) and it's way better looking than any Prequel fighter IMO. 

Why defang it?  It seems like the majority of EU ships are all about one-upping their trilogy counterparts, but if you look at the Alliance at Yavin (described as "well equipped" by at least one high ranking Imperial), they had basically 30 fighters to send against the Death Star, and it's not like there was any reason to hold anything back.  So I say give us more of the rusty, outdated stuff to make the "low end" Y-wings and TIE fighters look like the elite fighting machines they are supposed to be.

As for the model, I think if you beef it up a bit and shorten the nose and wings it will look very nice!

The Blastboat just sucks, Zahn or no.

[Turambar]

thing is, swash, if the assault gunboat is a line imperial craft, it should look like one, and not look like the imperials are just using rebel ships.

[brandx0]

Let's get some facts straight:

1) Y-Wing =/= Expensive
2) Y-Wing =/= Elite
3) Assault Gunboat = Much newer than the Y-Wing
4) Rebel Alliance =/= Rich

[Akalabeth Angel]

thing is, swash, if the assault gunboat is a line imperial craft, it should look like one, and not look like the imperials are just using rebel ships.

      The Gunboat looks like a combat-orientated cousin of the Lambda shuttle. I'm not sure where the problem is. I mean if the colour is the issue, then simply don't give it any. Make it flat white/grey like the Lambda. But I think the shape itself is rather imperial.

[Turambar]

I was referring to the image in Slayer's post there

[swashmebuckle]

thing is, swash, if the assault gunboat is a line imperial craft, it should look like one, and not look like the imperials are just using rebel ships.

Word; I was just trying to suggest a minor retcon to make the ship (who's design I like) fit into a more appropriate role (non-imperial), hence the defunct Old-Republic bomber idea.  Just an off-the-cuff suggestion.

Let's get some facts straight:

1) Y-Wing =/= Expensive
2) Y-Wing =/= Elite
3) Assault Gunboat = Much newer than the Y-Wing
4) Rebel Alliance =/= Rich

Yeah, elite was the wrong word, I should have said "extremely deadly".  But I will argue that the Alliance is ridiculously loaded for an organization that can't really tax anyone.  They have fighting machines that can go toe to toe with the at least the low-end imperial stuff, and that means an enormous amount of resources to train and maintain all of the people and equipment involved.  Imagine some independent group wanted to fight it out directly with modern US air power.  They could try to steal or highjack fighter jets, but it's not like someone's gonna leave the keys to the Nebulon B in the ignition--these are huge and expensive endeavors, even with all volunteers.  Ever try to buy a fighter jet?  Here's something sweet I saw at Oshkosh a couple years back:

http://www.avtechgroup.com/

A bargain at $3 million per unit, but sadly they would probably not fare so well in combat.  Anyway I'm sorry that I am going so far off topic again, and I know the economics of transgalactic warfare are probably somewhat different, but I still suspect that those damned tree-hugging Alderaanian types were funneling a huge flow of cash into the Alliance.  In conclusion, I really wanted an X-wing for Christmas but got socks, and I hope the Gunboat makes it.

[Vertigo 7]

most of the rebellion ships are Mon Calamari and correlian design. Correlia seems fairly well up there in the technological scale too. Also the Neb. B frigates the rebellion has were captured from the empire. Sure, they don't have the funds that the empire has but I'm quite sure with the systems signed on with the rebellion, they are able to maintain the war effort with little trouble.

Anyway, back on topic. Since no body liked my gun boat i'm starting over =p I may have a mesh ready later today, if not tomorrow.

[bobbtmann]

...Since no body liked my gun boat i'm starting over =p ...

I think it's the gun boat in general that I don't like, you're just working with what you've got. My suggestion would be to think of the gun boat as a problem to be solved. Study other imperial ships and find out what makes them look imperial and apply those imperial characteristics to the gunboat. My impression is that the person who originally designed the gun boat wanted to make it look like it was related in form to the Lambda, so you could draw inspiration from there.

[Vertigo 7]

well i KNOW what the gun boat looks like, its one of my favorite craft, however, I wanted to give it a "new" look. My new look didn't go over well so meh, no worries. I personally don't like they way it has been modeled with most everything. It's not the concept of the gunboat i dont like, I love it, but just the way it has been modeled with the other games, i don't like. I guess its kinda hard for me to put into words, It just looks like ass so I wanted to give it a make over =p

[bobbtmann]

Fair enough.

[Flipside]

I suppose the thing is, the AG is kind of like a heavy Tie-Bomber, they handle like bricks, but then, they don't need to be sleek or fast, because anything in front of it gets shot and stays shot.

[Zelvik]

When it comes to rebel craft at the time when the AG was introduced we are speaking of Y-Wings, X-Wings and (if you trust the X-Wing storyline which introduced the gunboat the A-Wing - which was retconned to be some early prototypes). If you only take the movies and books as references I guess we are speaking just of Y and X-Wings with probably some odd other craft used by the Rebel Alliance as well (definitly Z-95 and probably). Of those the Y-Wing and Z-95 probably were widely available at the time of the early galactic civil war (considering the Rebel Alliance probably got most of its equipment from 2nd rate planetary governments and their militias which formed their backbone). The X-Wing on the other side was an Imperial project to produce a modern space suberiority fighter. Although both the Incom design team and the prototypes ended up with the Rebels its strictly spoken an Imperial development. After the initial success of the X-Wing against the aging TIE-Fighter versions the Empire decided to develop something that could counter the new threat. Beeing quite a large entity this effort produces several alternate approaches. On the one hand the TIE series was further refined producing results like the TIE-Interceptor which was to become the new mainstay fighter of the Empire and more advanced and expensive designs like the TIE-Avenger and Defender.

The other design approach was a more conventional bulky fighter that probably borrowed much from the development of the X-Wing and older Republic fighters. Thus the AG was born. OR maybe the AG was the direct competitor to the X-Wing for the production contract that the Empire offered for a new superiority fighter. So this would give an explanation of why the AG shares more with the Rebel designs than it shares with other Imperial ones.

On another note, what do we know about the employment of the AG within the Imperial navy? IIRC an ISD carries only 5 Gunboats making it a quite rare vehicle compared to the relativly high number of TIE craft. This implies that the AG probably had a quite different mission profile than the TIE compliment. Wheter it was used for reconnesaince or hit and run assaults through its hyperspace capability.

[Wanderer]

I kinda viewed the assault gunboat mainly as imperial emergency/stopgap measure to counter the more manouverable rebel units... that is to give each ISD some sort of recce/scout/rapid responce force of hyperdrive equipped ships. Also as the manufacturer seems to be different than that of the TIE series there was no real option of 'retooling' the production lines into pushing better TIEs (like adv or def) or possibly the GUNs were suited for long duration patrols better than anything from the generally 'short legged' TIE series... Or something