[karajorma]

Wait, wait, it's hardly like we decide, and it's certainly not representative of the views of American citizens.

I would not continue using that system if I were in China's position! There, satisfied?

Sorry, I should say a single American who thinks the table with America at the top makes sense. In general I seem to see two groups. Those who think it's silly and those who defend it but wouldn't if it placed them second.

OK so if you do the gold medal system you are saying a country that has 50 gold medals and nothing else would be better than a country that has 49 gold, 25 silver and 10 bronze? 

Which is why I tend to think a system that gives 3 points for a gold going down to 1 for a bronze is the fairest.

But it depends on what you want to say about being the best. The system measuring golds says that the country with 50 golds is better at winning events. Which it is.

BTW that system has been in use since day one even before the Americans had more overall medals.  China was on top more than once.

And you think that's a coincidence? The American media knew right from the start that their best hope was in winning more overall medals.

[Mongoose]

And you think that's a coincidence? The American media knew right from the start that their best hope was in winning more overall medals.

For at least the fourth or fifth time, this same tallying system has been used by American broadcasters during every single Olympics of at least the past 16 years, whether or not the United States was expected to be challenged in the medal count, or even win at all.  I'm fairly certain I can remember at least one or two Winter Olympics where we weren't the top medals-winner by a significant margin...and yet we still used that same system.  The particular circumstances of these specific games have no bearing on it whatsoever.  It's simply a different system, one that's been used for a long time and which prioritizes a different data element.

[karajorma]

Yeah. A ****ing stupid one that goes against the spirit of the entire Olympic Games (Here's a clue. Winning the gold is meant to mean something!).

But never mind. As long as you're happy with it, I'll chalk it up on the the very long list of things Americans think are sensible in defiance of logic and common sense.

[Nuclear1]

The anti-Americanism gets a little old after a while kara.

[karajorma]

Ah. Blame anti-Americanism. That way you don't have to admit that the ranking system is stupid.

[Nuclear1]

Actually I was more referring to this:

As long as you're happy with it, I'll chalk it up on the the very long list of things Americans think are sensible in defiance of logic and common sense.

Fine, the ranking system is stupid.  I really don't even care about it anymore, I more care that it seems every time there's a discussion about the way Americans handle things, you (and a fair amount of other HLPers) can't resist some comment about apparent American stupidity.  Just gets old after a while.

[Darius]

If the rest of the world sees China as topping the medals tally, I'd be content to leave the Americans to their own rankings systems. It's not like anyone gives much attention to it other than the Americans themselves.

[Flipside]

Sorry, but I'm with Karajorma here in one main factor. America (and China) has a vast population, therefore it can produce a lot more competitors than other smaller countries, and so therefore stands a higher chance statistically of getting more medals, and can produce world-class competitors for a lot more disciplines.

That's why I prefer the points system (or even the population per medal one), so that quality has an impact as well as sheer volume.

That's not knocking the US' achievements, individually, those athletes did great to get bronzes and silvers, I couldn't have done it, but Kara's right, to the athlete there is a world of difference between third place and first place, and the medal system should reflect that to a degree.

I don't doubt we will have our own set of controversies and claims/counter-claims when it comes here in 4 years though.

[karajorma]

Fine, the ranking system is stupid.  I really don't even care about it anymore, I more care that it seems every time there's a discussion about the way Americans handle things, you (and a fair amount of other HLPers) can't resist some comment about apparent American stupidity.  Just gets old after a while.

If anti-Americanism gets old so does the silly view certain Americans have that your country can do no wrong even when what it's doing is patently absurd. Stop making your country a laughing stock. You could have simply admitted it was stupid and blamed the media.

Instead we got a long defence of the ranking system you use just because it's the one you use. Had that been a British system I doubt you would have seen any Brits defending it cause we would have agreed it was stupid long ago.

[Akalabeth Angel]

     It's not really the first time that the American media has spread the inaccurate. I remember a few olympics ago, when Canadian Donovan Bailey won the 100m sprint the Americans were saying that their guy, some 200m runner was "the fastest in the world" or whatever. The two runners ended up having some 150m head to head run where Bailey kicked the american's ass (who incidentally, also pretended to pull a muscle and dropped back when defeat was imminent). But whatever, that's why I avoid American newscasts like the plague.

    A few years ago someone also commented that the Canadian CBC differed from the American broadcaster in that they showed many events that didn't feature their own countries athletes.


    Just wait til 2010! Canada won't be slanting the ranking system, because no matter how it's weighted we'll still be getting our asses kicked.

[captain-custard]

i think we will have to accept that the americans will always use different measuring systems to aid boost there national pride, wether the system is based on medals ,crop production , oil etc ,

all nations tend to read information differently if they didnt then being a history rechearcher would be aan easy job..

the only true way to work out ( if you really need to for some unknown abstract reason i.e national pride) who has done the best in the olympic competition is to use the points system divided by the number of events then by the number of inhabitants this will give the truest result ,


but then againif you do this the spirit olympic is dead and buried













if it isnt already....................................................... ............................


and the winner is

addidas

[Mars]

The ranking system is stupid, however, don't you think that if China were in our place, they'd do exactly the same thing? And lets face it, John Doe doesn't really care about the Olympics, he's probably just going to glance at a stats site like that and see that the US is on top.

Does that make him stupid? I don't think so, it just means he doesn't care enough to carefully analyse the method of ranking.

If anti-Americanism gets old so does the silly view certain Americans have that your country can do no wrong even when what it's doing is patently absurd. Stop making your country a laughing stock. You could have simply admitted it was stupid and blamed the media.

Instead we got a long defence of the ranking system you use just because it's the one you use. Had that been a British system I doubt you would have seen any Brits defending it cause we would have agreed it was stupid long ago.

Yes I agree it was a stupid discussion to begin with, but it's mostly a case of people feeling like they need to go on the defensive. While I'd love to get in a huddle with the other 305,000,000 Americans and tell them to not take things so personally, it's not going to happen.

IMHO, any country out there will try to arrange the data in a way that makes them look better, it's human nature. It's why you can't just take information as objective, because it never is.

[karajorma]

The ranking system is stupid, however, don't you think that if China were in our place, they'd do exactly the same thing?

Probably. Does it make it any less stupid? Don't you want your country to be better than China? Do you really need to massage the truth to feel good about yourselves?

And lets face it, John Doe doesn't really care about the Olympics, he's probably just going to glance at a stats site like that and see that the US is on top.

Does that make him stupid? I don't think so, it just means he doesn't care enough to carefully analyse the method of ranking.

That doesn't make him stupid. He's just reading what was put in front of him. However if someone points out that the system is stupid and he does care enough to analyse the ranking method and then still says it's not stupid I'd have to question his objectivity.

Yes I agree it was a stupid discussion to begin with, but it's mostly a case of people feeling like they need to go on the defensive. While I'd love to get in a huddle with the other 305,000,000 Americans and tell them to not take things so personally, it's not going to happen.

So don't get defensive then. We're all friends here. Mongoose reignited this discussion to propose a better system and then went back to defending the current American one after I pointed out that his better system still wouldn't put America at the top.

If that isn't worthy of some gentle mocking I don't know what is.

[Swifty]

Counting total medals is stupid and so is exclusively counting golds. You all are stupid. Everybody wins. Or loses.

[WMCoolmon]

All your ranking systems are stupid.

They give preference to the country that has the most ability to field the largest number of trained athletes. All they prove is that countries with lots of people have a better chance of having more people with extraordinary talents, countries with more money have the luxury of paying their athletes to do nothing but train, and who can send lots of athletes because their country isn't getting invaded by some other country or facing internal strife.

So are the Olympics supposed to be a measure of how successful a country is at suppression, imperialism, and domination?

Uzbekistan, North Korea, and the Bahamas are the real winners of this year's Olympics.

[Al Tarket]

im just happy iran got a single gold medal, makes watching the games more worthwhile not to say i dont watch all 2 weeks worth.

afghanistan isreal and eygpt got bronze which is also good. however i was very happy to hear togo got 1 medal, and the first medal in the games ever.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I couldn't care less about the medal thing. All I know is that America has the most medals, while China has the most gold medals.

[karajorma]

Uzbekistan, North Korea, and the Bahamas are the real winners of this year's Olympics.

Those stats still appear to be per medal and thus suffer from the same flaw the American system does. They should give points for each type and THEN divide by GDP, population, or size of the team.

[Snail]

I like spewing anti-American bull****. People might think it's old but I still find it fun.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I like spewing anti-American bull****. People might think it's old but I still find it fun.

Jeremy Clarkson seems to do that a lot too.