[NGTM-1R]

All I know is the %, if you know about those programs, feel free to post a link or something, where we could read about it.

There are ones based on employment practices, public works,charity donations, environmental safety...I'm really quite shocked you didn't even think of them, or that you didn't know of them. It almost stretches my credulity to the point of charging with willful ignorance.

Also, as you cited a company with a tax rate in a particular state it is quite meaningless, as you did not cite federal tax rates.

[Aardwolf]

I'm voting for Alec Baldwin.

[NGTM-1R]

Interesting fact reported by the LA Times.

When Palin was a Mayor, hers was the only city in the state which charged rape victims for their forensic kit tests. It took the passing of a state law to make them do otherwise.

[karajorma]

When Palin was a Mayor, hers was the only city in the state which charged rape victims for their forensic kit tests. It took the passing of a state law to make them do otherwise.

You have to be ****ing kidding me!

EDIT : Evidently not.

Maria Comella, a spokeswoman for the campaign of Palin and John McCain, said that Palin "does not believe, nor has she ever believed, that rape victims should have to pay for an evidence-gathering test

So she's just incompetent at managing her police department then?

[Turey]

I am:

• Not bothering to read the thread.
• Voting McCain.
• Now going to get back to actually working at work.

[Bob-san]

I support McCain because I oppose abortion.

[Colonol Dekker]

How long you been a us citizen Karajorma
 
 *crud now i've broken the thread too

[karajorma]

Only the poll is for US citizens. Anyone can comment.

[MP-Ryan]

I support McCain because I oppose abortion.

There's logic.  I'll vote for a candidate based on one single minor issue while ignoring the fact that there are dozens of more important policies which the candidates differ on which could very well change the course of my nation's history.

Please note:  I'm not attacking your choice of vote necessarily, just the logic in how you would make it.

[Bob-san]

I support McCain because I oppose abortion.

There's logic.  I'll vote for a candidate based on one single minor issue while ignoring the fact that there are dozens of more important policies which the candidates differ on which could very well change the course of my nation's history.

Please note:  I'm not attacking your choice of vote necessarily, just the logic in how you would make it.

To me, abortion is perhaps the largest issue. Over thirty-six million abortions have been performed in the ~13,000 days since the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision. To me, 2770 abortions performed daily is disgusting and perhaps the worst genocide possible. That's my opinion--and my opposition to the mass abortion trend, not only in the USA, makes that the single most-important issue to me. You disagree--great. Vote on what you consider most important.

[Turambar]

But they're not people, just potential people.

Think of all the lives of rape victims, teenage girls, and financially unstable people that could have been ruined by those babies.  Think of how unfortunate the lives of those babies would have been.  They're better off not having existed.

[Rian]

The thing is, McCain may try to make abortions illegal, but he’s not going to prevent them from happening. When abortion is illegal, people turn to shady, back-alley providers and home “remedies” rather than legitimate doctors. And people die, because allowing an unwanted cell-wad to turn into an unwanted child is more terrifying than the risk of infection, internal injury, and death from a procedure that should be safe and accessible.

There were abortions before Roe v. Wade. There are abortions in countries where abortion is illegal. Many of them involve jamming coat hangers into the uterus, or deadly poisons. (yes, one of the ‘options’ for people without legal recourse to abortion is to poison the carrier to the point where her body rejects the fetus in favor of its own survival)

The way to prevent abortion is not to make the procedure itself illegal, but to prevent the circumstances that make it necessary. Comprehensive sex education and better access to contraception are the real answer, but McCain and his cronies doesn’t have the foresight to see that this is the case. They’d rather criminalize people who are often too desperate to care.

[karajorma]

Let's try not to turn this into a debate on abortion itself. A debate on the policies of the various parties is fine but I'd rather this doesn't devolve into a debate on whether it is right or wrong.

Rian : I don't believe McCain will try to ban abortions. 12 years of Republican government under Reagan and Bush Snr didn't ban them. Eight years under Bush Jnr (arguably a much more fundamentalist than McCain) didn't ban them. I doubt that McCain would try either.

And that is why I feel it's foolish to vote for a politician based on their opinion about abortion. You could have said the exact same thing about voting for Bush but AFAIK nothing done in the last 8 years of the Bush presidency has brought the abortion rate down. The biggest drop in the abortion rate since '73 actually occurred during Clinton's presidency (Although I'm not saying that's due to his policies). Voting for McCain won't do a thing to decrease the abortion rate. In fact the short-sighted abstinence-only sex ed programs that Bush instituted will probably lead to a rise in them whoever wins. A policy that McCain will probably continue.

If you want to bring the abortion rate down voting for a a politician who favoured better sex ed would probably have more of an effect than giving it to McCain just because he says he is against it. If his policy on abortions might have an effect then you can say it's worth voting for the man over but his policy will be just to say that it's wrong while doing little to stop it just like both Bush's and Reagan.

[Bob-san]

I disagree. They're people, especially as our usable tech increases so that a child can be saved earlier out of the womb. If you don't want a kid or there's a problem, adoption is a better option in my opinion. As for other people desperate--I'm not saying 100% ban for rape and incest victims and for those situations that mother and child will die. To say NO 100% is also wrong.

We need to do more than limiting abortion--that's true. I'm saying that the vast, VAST majority of abortions are unnecessary. Banning it won't stop abortions from happening illegally--but we need the institutions to help these people that are scared or are unable to care typically for the result of their mistake.

Anyways--that's what I base my decisions on. If there's a democrat that doesn't support abortion and I like at least some of their policies and positions, I'll vote for them. If they're pro-choice I'll probably vote against them. That's me--cast your support for who you feel is right.

[General Battuta]

Fortunately for you, Karajorma, most of the US electorate is unlike Bob-san: abortion is not a big issue.

The vast majority of voters select their candidates based on security and economy. Furthermore, the vast majority of US voters agree on most issues. There is a broad, moderate consensus in the States that simply isn't represented in politics.

The 'culture wars', and the great divide over abortion, are largely a myth.

I had a political scientist tell me, baldly, that 'this election, nobody cares about abortion.' 2004 was supposed to be some kind of referendum on abortion and the 'moral lifestyle', but almost nobody voted on those criteria. Odd how it gets so much press time.

[karajorma]

It gets press time cause if the Republicans pay it lip service they can scoop up a few votes and look good to the Christian Right (who care more about other issues but who don't mind hearing it).

[Polpolion]

The morality of abortion is subjective, and IMHO it's not up to the government to force this kind of morality on people. Have it legal, and the people who find it immoral can attack the problem at its source, as opposed to just whining about the fact that it's legal. Getting angry at the government for it isn't going to solve the problem, or even make it better.

I'd much rather have a president who knew how to effectively lead the nation rather than have a president that just happened to share some of my beliefs. If the president knew how his actions would affect the nation, then he could be a much, much better president than if he just focused on the things he thought were right. IMHO, issue-focused election = bad, leadership-focused election = good.

EDIT: BTW, the world is quite over-populated. Just so you know...

[MP-Ryan]

I may be throwing grease on the fire here, but there is substantial, valid peer-reviewed research demonstrating that legalized abortion has a significant impact on LOWERING the overall crime rate.

The argument is not that you should abort, but rather that if fewer babies are born into social circumstances in which they are heavily disadvantaged and unsupported, fewer people grow up and become involved in the types of crime which are heavily correlated to extremely low socioeconomic status.

To me, that says you're better off voting for someone who believes in comprehensive sex education and a system in which people do not destroy their financial existence merely trying to pay for things like their next meal or adequate medical support.

[General Battuta]

It gets press time cause if the Republicans pay it lip service they can scoop up a few votes and look good to the Christian Right (who care more about other issues but who don't mind hearing it).

Yes, this.

I may be throwing grease on the fire here, but there is substantial, valid peer-reviewed research demonstrating that legalized abortion has a significant impact on LOWERING the overall crime rate.

The argument is not that you should abort, but rather that if fewer babies are born into social circumstances in which they are heavily disadvantaged and unsupported, fewer people grow up and become involved in the types of crime which are heavily correlated to extremely low socioeconomic status.

To me, that says you're better off voting for someone who believes in comprehensive sex education and a system in which people do not destroy their financial existence merely trying to pay for things like their next meal or adequate medical support.

Also this.

Lastly, Michelle Obama is a very smart woman. Whether or not you agree with the Obama campaign, I hope that everybody agrees with the sentiment in that post.

[karajorma]

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/portrayal_of_obama_as_elitist