[Mongoose]

Why 'choir' then. I know I never always agreed with my conductor when I was in choir ...

That would be the "preaching" part; that is, telling the people who show up at church every week to sing about Jesus that Jesus loves them.

[Stormkeeper]

That would be the "preaching" part; that is, telling the people who show up at church every week to sing about Jesus that Jesus loves them.

Oh, that kinda choir. Mine was a school choir.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Isn't the suspension bridge a marvel of steel and concrete? Debris is just...steel and concrete.

I wonder who has the blueprints for the GTD Orion...

[Droid803]

That's so illogical.
Nothing can transcend its components. In the end, a suspension bridge is only as good as the concrete and steel it is made of. Form and function are irrelevant. We're talking about what it is, not what it does. A suspension bridge IS just concrete and steel. Why? Take all the concrete and steel away and what are you left with? NOTHING!

This doesn't change the fact that at our current technological level, we do not have the means to construct a living organism. However, there is nothing stating that it is completely impossible to do.

Of course, if you want philosophical, you can question if this reality exists at all, or we're in some Matrix-like thing...

[Mars]

Well in that case I guess a transporter is easier than we thought.

As long as we get the atoms in roughly the right place, then everything will be alright, correct? After all, "form and function are irrelevant", as long as we get the components right.

Form and function matter to humans. I suppose if you were an impersonal observer, everything would eventually go entropy anyway, so you wouldn't care. As a human however, form and function matter a whole lot, and I personally would like my atoms staying in roughly the same configuration, even if I swap them out a lot.

I'm not arguing that it's impossible to construct a living organism, I'm saying it would be a hell of a lot more complicated than people seem to think to disassemble and reassemble a specific living organism, and capture all of the neural impulses at the exact moment of transport.

Remember, there's more than just matter in people, if one came through a transport and lacked electrical impulses, the person will come out the other end dead. And the matter is a tough enough problem.

I do think a quantum transporter might well be possible however

[terran_emperor]

does anyone even remember what this thread was about in the first place?

I mean how did we get from talking about whether the destruction of the Galatea strengthened Terran-Vasudan relations to talking about FLT drives and Transporters?

On a minor note, i prefere Dr Who's name for the transpoter - Transmat

[Droid803]

Well in that case I guess a transporter is easier than we thought.

As long as we get the atoms in roughly the right place, then everything will be alright, correct? After all, "form and function are irrelevant", as long as we get the components right.

Then the bridge analogy isn't the perfect one in this sense. A bridge is easy enough to replicate. You could do it with all the atoms in roughly the right place and it wouldn't fall apart.

Form and function matter to humans. I suppose if you were an impersonal observer, everything would eventually go entropy anyway, so you wouldn't care. As a human however, form and function matter a whole lot, and I personally would like my atoms staying in roughly the same configuration, even if I swap them out a lot.

I'm not arguing that it's impossible to construct a living organism, I'm saying it would be a hell of a lot more complicated than people seem to think to disassemble and reassemble a specific living organism, and capture all of the neural impulses at the exact moment of transport.

Remember, there's more than just matter in people, if one came through a transport and lacked electrical impulses, the person will come out the other end dead. And the matter is a tough enough problem.

That, I agree with.
But we are just made of chemicals and electrical impulses...its just that we're made of very specific chemicals and electrical impulses.

does anyone even remember what this thread was about in the first place?

I mean how did we get from talking about whether the destruction of the Galatea strengthened Terran-Vasudan relations to talking about FLT drives and Transporters?

The power of derailment.

[Mars]

That, I agree with.
But we are just made of chemicals and electrical impulses...its just that we're made of very specific chemicals and electrical impulses.

I just don't understand what the purpose of "just" is in your argument.

I too think that we're made of chemicals and electrical impulses, very specific ones, I think you'll find that a jellyfish is as well.

I don't think we are JUST chemicals and electrical impulses, because they must be at very specific places, at very specific times. Together, they form a human. I fully acknowledge what a human is made of, thank you very much.

Of course an object can "transcend" its components, in the sense that an object is not just a random collection of components, but a very structured thing.

[terran_emperor]

Oh boy...This is when we get into the deep philosohical stuff....

Looks lets just skip the whole philosophical dicussion here - I've heard it all 1988 times before - Lets instead skip staight to the conclusion and say that humans and indeed all living things are more than the sum of their parts.

[Mars]

There's no philosophical discussion at all... at least, I'm not trying to make a philosophical argument, because it would quickly become impossible to prove either way.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I just don't understand what the purpose of "just" is in your argument.

I too think that we're made of chemicals and electrical impulses, very specific ones, I think you'll find that a jellyfish is as well.

I don't think we are JUST chemicals and electrical impulses, because they must be at very specific places, at very specific times. Together, they form a human. I fully acknowledge what a human is made of, thank you very much.

Of course an object can "transcend" its components, in the sense that an object is not just a random collection of components, but a very structured thing.

       Okay, how did life begin?
       If you watch something like All Good Things, the last episode of Star Trek, some pool of goo, decided it was going to be alive and set the ball into motion? Can such a simple organism as that be created in the lab? Because the very first spark of life on this world had to be just the sum of its components, some chemicals, or proteins or whatever got together and thus was life born. But can anyone replicate even something so simple????

[Mars]

AS I SAID

I am not saying that it's impossible to construct a life form.

I am saying that a transporter should transport an entire organism, not just its various components.

[Mongoose]

Okaaay...I think this is best off locked.  I have no idea how this thread made it through as many topics as it did, but where it wound up isn't related to FS in the slightest.  If you want to continue discussing the philosophical ramifications of teleportation, may I suggest the lovely GenDisc forum?