Author Topic: Retconned Viper VII and Raider  (Read 15179 times)

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Offline Striker

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
Although I'm fairly certain the Stealthstar's resemblance to the Blackbird is simply due to budgetary reasons, not any connection in universe.

I've attached a comparison of the raiders and links to the MK VII's.

Old: http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/1/1a/ViperMK7side.jpg
http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/e/e6/ViperMK7inferior.jpg
New: http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/f/f2/Viper_Mk_VII_Retcon_Profile.jpg
Both in the same shot: http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/0/08/Retconned_Viper_Mk_VII_and_original_version_on_screen_together.jpg

Personally I think the new one looks bulkier, which kinda kills the sleekness that the VII always radiated.

[attachment deleted by Tolwyn]
...lurk

 

Offline Hellstryker

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
No hotlinking!

Edit: Works if copy pasted into browser. The retconned version, by the way, looks horrific  :ick:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 12:05:16 am by Hellstryker »

 

Offline MR_T3D

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
i THINK that the blue-er Mark VII's could be ones made from the asteroids in scar episode.

not as good as the old, though, but still built.

 

Offline Angelus

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
The retconned MkVII looks way bulkier then the Older one.

Either the new one is a new design ( MkVII b ), or the Pegasus engineers had to "improvise".
The Pegasus wasn't fully equipped as the Cylons attacked the Scorpion shipyards, and during the attack ( and later during the attack on the Cylon comm relay ( staging ground ), a lot of ships have been destroyed and the Pegasus took also serious damage. Remember - the Pegasus started building new Vipers AFTER they found ore in that Asteroidfield. Pegasus probably build Vipers before that time, but the amount of parts the ship has onboard is limited and they used them to replace the Vipers they lost in the initial attack.

So it might be, that some ship systems have been "redesigned", they turned out "bulkier" then the standard parts that where used on the colonies.

Just a theory...;)
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Offline bizzybody

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
The new one looks like it was inspired by John Berkey's Sci-Fi cover art. http://astrona.blogspot.com/2007_06_01_archive.html

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=John+Berkey&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title

Everything he's done has these 'fattish' horizontal curves and pointy bits and scoops. One thing you can count on with a Berkey cover is that it'll look nothing at all like anything described within the magazine or book.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
Actually when I first saw the new MK VII I thought they used a F-18 Hornet / F-18F Super Hornet (or Rhino) as their cue for the change in the art style.  If you compare the Hornets the most apparent outer changes are the flared out wing root/fuselage leading into the wings and the big angular intakes for the turbofans.  Similarly the new MK VII has flared out fuselage leading into the wing and new square intakes underneath.


See the following comparison of the Rhino to the old Hornet then compare the VIIs:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/f18ef/f18_schem_01.gif
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Offline Lt.Cannonfodder

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
Yep, I was immediately thinking of Super Hornet when I saw the new MKVII for the first time (I think it was in Maelstrom). I still dont like it however, especially when no explanation was provided as to where the hell did it come from. Same goes for all the retcons.

And StarSlayer, man, we've missed you :)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 03:44:33 am by Lt.Cannonfodder »

 

Offline Snagger

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
Chief designed and built the Blackbird from scratch. It's not a stretch to say that they could make modifications to an already existing design, especially when Pegasus could create new fighters.

It is however a fair assumption that the Blackbird was inferior to the Stealthstar seeing as how the latter was built not by a bunch of mechanics in their spare time but by a proper R&D team.
Then again, the StealthStar was painted brighlty, has huge engines with a bright visual and IR signature, and had a cockpit full of blue chav lights.  They seemed to be able to detect it very easily.  The Blackbird is near invisible to the eye and to sensors.  It doesn't make sense, but there you go...

For what it's worth, I completely agree with the consensus that the original models looked better and the unexplained changes are bizarre.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
I kinda like the chunky Mark VIIs. They look like Super Hornets.

 

Offline Ace

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
Chief designed and built the Blackbird from scratch. It's not a stretch to say that they could make modifications to an already existing design, especially when Pegasus could create new fighters.

It is however a fair assumption that the Blackbird was inferior to the Stealthstar seeing as how the latter was built not by a bunch of mechanics in their spare time but by a proper R&D team.
Then again, the StealthStar was painted brighlty, has huge engines with a bright visual and IR signature, and had a cockpit full of blue chav lights.  They seemed to be able to detect it very easily.  The Blackbird is near invisible to the eye and to sensors.  It doesn't make sense, but there you go...

Well, keep in mind that stealth in space is a silly concept to begin with ;)

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3w.html#nostealth

On the bright side though, carbon composites *can* be made to absorb RADAR (DRADIS), but all that a smart toaster has to do is lock onto the heat signal or use LIDAR.

Then again, we are talking about a group who decided not to have a ton of genetic diversity and can't figure out that the best way of dealing with the meatbags is actually sticking with the plan to wipe them out... So, in the end, the chromejobs are probably too stupid to use IR tracking for their passive sensors over the protestations of the Ones (who have the brains you know)....
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 03:10:21 pm by Ace »
Ace
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Offline Snagger

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
Well, keep in mind that stealth in space is a silly concept to begin with ;)

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3w.html#nostealth

On the bright side though, carbon composites *can* be made to absorb RADAR (DRADIS), but all that a smart toaster has to do is lock onto the heat signal or use LIDAR.

Then again, we are talking about a group who decided not to have a ton of genetic diversity and can't figure out that the best way of dealing with the meatbags is actually sticking with the plan to wipe them out... So, in the end, the chromejobs are probably too stupid to use IR tracking for their passive sensors over the protestations of the Ones (who have the brains you know)....
Yep - make something that absorbs all the active EM detectors, and it'll show up beautifully on passive IR.  It's just that the "stealthstar" looked so high-observable anyway, with a bigger visual and EM signature than a Viper!

Just out of curiosity, what are the changes to the Pegasus and Raider?  I hadn't really noticed them, while the changes to the basestars and MkVIIs are so obvious.

 

Offline FraktuRe

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
The peggy get's new front thrusters, an external docking bay thing on the flight pods and I think a turret or two was removed? Can't remember.
Or something.
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Offline Shade

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
Raider gets a new 'face' that is more in line with the centurions.

Old: http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/d/d3/Raider_head..jpg
New: http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/1/17/Raider_retcon.jpg

Of course, never ones to waste a chance to expand out ship set, we're using these two variants as distinct classes of raiders, so you'll get to see both in R1 :)
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Offline Snagger

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
The peggy get's new front thrusters, an external docking bay thing on the flight pods and I think a turret or two was removed? Can't remember.
I thought that "cut out" half way along the Peg's upper pods was always there.  I hadn't thought much about why they were there until Razor, but I didn't think that was a change.  As for the bow thrusters, we didn't see them get used before Razor, but were their structures previously missing?

I think I remebr the changed to the Raiders' faces now that you mention it, though your hotlinks have been diasbled.  I now seem to recall the original "eye" being straight (when they "emit" in the mini series), and later being V-shaped, like the scan in the first episode of S4 (don't want to be specific and make spoilers for anyone).

Thanks for the reply and clarification. :)

 

Enki

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
The cut-out was always there, but in Razor a the shipyard it looks to be explicitly used as a Raptor landing/docking area. But in S2 it looks like there is large equipment mounted there.  Hence the potential change in use.  Otherwise, I haven't seen it used as a landing pad other than in the shipyard shot.

 

Offline Snagger

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
The cut-out was always there, but in Razor a the shipyard it looks to be explicitly used as a Raptor landing/docking area. But in S2 it looks like there is large equipment mounted there.  Hence the potential change in use.  Otherwise, I haven't seen it used as a landing pad other than in the shipyard shot.
It looked more to me like a wide access point to move any equipment in and out from the docks, rather than a landing platform, but I can't remember what equipment was there during the non-Razor eps.

 

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
Well, keep in mind that stealth in space is a silly concept to begin with ;)

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3w.html#nostealth

On the bright side though, carbon composites *can* be made to absorb RADAR (DRADIS), but all that a smart toaster has to do is lock onto the heat signal or use LIDAR.

Then again, we are talking about a group who decided not to have a ton of genetic diversity and can't figure out that the best way of dealing with the meatbags is actually sticking with the plan to wipe them out... So, in the end, the chromejobs are probably too stupid to use IR tracking for their passive sensors over the protestations of the Ones (who have the brains you know)....

Well.. to be honest with that entry projectrho entry.. if scanning the space is soo easy - as described in that article - that mere four hours is enough to scan whole sky for presence of objects then how come we are still essentially blind to approaching asteroids (which do shine in sunlight...)?
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Offline Ace

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
There's a pretty big difference between the heat signature of an asteroid (close to background) and what a spacecraft would give off.
Ace
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Enki

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
It looked more to me like a wide access point to move any equipment in and out from the docks, rather than a landing platform, but I can't remember what equipment was there during the non-Razor eps.

IIRC there were actually a couple Raptors perched in the cutout during the opening shot of Peggy and a bay opening looking like an airlock.  I couldn't find a screencap of that but here is an older equipment filled screenie:

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Retconned Viper VII and Raider
Yeah I've seen shots of the Raptor pads (haven't seen Razor yet :P).  I figured the original cut out and its equipment were for underway replenishment or something.
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