[Mobius]

They'd end up badly and lead to the creation of threads like "What is your avatar about?" and countless "Help me create an avatar" or worse, "Create an avatar for me". I would personally ask to combine the 4 pics attached to this post:

- Mobius logo(what did you expect from me?);

- Phoenix (I have been loving that pic for nearly 10 years, I can't exclude it from my avatar...sorry Goober );

- Italian flag(Yeah!);

- US flag(Another Yeah!);

The result? Uhm...waste of time? Although I may love the avatar I'd like to focus on FREDding...HLP is not the right place to use avatars.

Texturers and other modders would be more concerned about avatars than on hosted projects' stuff, which would be greatly pathetic. Read above - would you really like to see that kind of threads here on HLP? 

[attachment stolen by Slimey Goober]

[Goober5000]

EDIT: What Mobius said.  Also:

1) Witness the recent thread where people were arguing over images in signatures, signature length and content, etc.  It's generally recognized that clamping down on out-of-control signatures is a Good Thing^TM.  And that's just text.  Imagine having that same discussion in a board where everybody had an avatar.

2) An avatar provides a way to immediately identify a forum member as an admin.  It says, in effect, "FYI - this member is someone who a) has been around for a while and is likely to know more about FreeSpace (and be more reliable) than someone chosen at random; and b) is responsible for enforcing the forum rules and whom you should try not to piss off."

3) Being an admin carries extra responsibility, and can sometimes be more frustrating, than being an average member.  They carry the burden of fixing things when they go wrong, and they are the lenders of last resort when it comes to forum finances.  So as partial compensation, we like to reserve certain perks especially for ourselves.  Custom avatars are one such perk.

[Mobius]

To be honest, I think currently used avatars could be bigger...there's enough space under nicknames, post count and badges to enlarge them a bit, I guess...

Just an idea...

[TrashMan]

They'd end up badly and lead to the creation of threads like "What is your avatar about?" and countless "Help me create an avatar" or worse, "Create an avatar for me".

Haven't really noticed such threads in any of the other forums.

Even if one opens them, are threads like that so terrible compared to some we already have? We talk about all kind of crazy, stupid and whuimsical stuff. Heck, I bet avatrs would have more to do with FS than most topics out there

Texturers and other modders would be more concerned about avatars than on hosted projects' stuff, which would be greatly pathetic. Read above - would you really like to see that kind of threads here on HLP?  [/mobius]

A 60x60 avatar? I can make in in 10 minutes. Yeah...I'm gonna be soooo buys doing aht that I will never get to work on other stuff. Aren't you putting too much importance on the avatars?

BY Goobber50002
An avatar provides a way to immediately identify a forum member as an admin.  It says, in effect, "FYI - this member is someone who a) has been around for a while and is likely to know more about FreeSpace (and be more reliable) than someone chosen at random; and b) is responsible for enforcing the forum rules and whom you should try not to piss off."

So use big avatars and allow only small ones for other forum members. 
You can get rid of the project flags if you're worried about clutter.

[Shade]

So you want to allow avatars for everyone, but take away the project badges that people have actually worked for? I respectfully disagree. I like it just the way it is now. It keeps the focus where the focus ought to be, namely on the projects that are in development rather than on self promovation, flashiness and/or spam.

[TrashMan]

And badges aren't self-promotion?

The way I see it, only few people have any benefit from badges, since most forums members don't work on many project, or not on projects hosted here (badges are only for those. If you have a project hosted elsewhere, no badge). Avatars is something everyone can use.

Either way, I'm not advocating the removal of badges. I said that if you could have only one, I'd rather have avatars.

[Shade]

The way I see it, only few people have any benefit from badges, since most forums members don't work on many project

Thus making badges an incentive to acquire the requisite skills and contribute instead of just spending 5 minutes in photoshop and making an avatar. And thereby helping out the community as a whole.

or not on projects hosted here (badges are only for those. If you have a project hosted elsewhere, no badge)

No badge here, you mean. Projects hosted on GW, for example, have their own badges. On GW. Which is as it should be.

Avatars is something everyone can use

Whether or not they've ever done the slightest thing to contribute to the community, yes.

[TrashMan]

Badges are hardly an incentive.
If someone starts to work on a project only to get a badge...sad, sad fellow I'd say.
Knowing you did good work is it's own reward.

Whether or not they've ever done the slightest thing to contribute to the community, yes.

Other than being members, talking and advertising it to their friends, giving suggestions and feedback on stuff?
I guess not. Does it matter?

Does every feature most other forums have for granted have to be weighed and given to only "special" people? What happened to good ol' fashioned giving just cause you can? Christmas spirit and all that jazz?

[Shade]

What happened to good ol' fashioned giving just cause you can?

The state of signatures before restrictions were enforced should be more than enough answer to why this just doesn't work.

[Goober5000]

TrashMan, you're falling into your own combative habits again.  You're running off at the mouth and posting without any self-discipline whatsoever.  Furthermore, you managed to misunderstand practically everything you responded to.

I am going to make one post containing a point-by-point rebuttal to your litany of complaints.  After this post, if you can ask thoughtful, intelligent, and non-provocatory questions, you may ask away.  But if you continue to be combative and argue as if you're entitled to everything you ask for, I will monkey you for one week.


Now then:

They'd end up badly and lead to the creation of threads like "What is your avatar about?" and countless "Help me create an avatar" or worse, "Create an avatar for me".

Haven't really noticed such threads in any of the other forums.

The nature of the internet dictates that such threads would start appearing very quickly, and in very many places.

Even if one opens them, are threads like that so terrible compared to some we already have?

Forum policy encourages the admins and moderators to maintain discipline.  So, yes.  Pointless threads should be kept to a minimum.

Texturers and other modders would be more concerned about avatars than on hosted projects' stuff, which would be greatly pathetic. Read above - would you really like to see that kind of threads here on HLP? 

A 60x60 avatar? I can make in in 10 minutes. Yeah...I'm gonna be soooo buys doing aht that I will never get to work on other stuff. Aren't you putting too much importance on the avatars?

You completely misunderstood Mobius's point.  The length of time required to create an avatar, or a badge, is irrelevant.  Mobius meant that avatars would be a big distraction.  People should not focus on avatars, which are superficial, but on hosted project stuff, which is the real meat and potatoes of what HLP is all about.

So use big avatars and allow only small ones for other forum members. 
You can get rid of the project flags if you're worried about clutter.

Again, you completely misunderstood the point.  Clutter has nothing to do with it.  Having an avatar is a privilege, one which the admins reserve for themselves.

The way I see it, only few people have any benefit from badges, since most forums members don't work on many project, or not on projects hosted here (badges are only for those. If you have a project hosted elsewhere, no badge). Avatars is something everyone can use.

That is the freaking point.  Badges are a reward for project participation.  They represent hard work and dedication.  We are not going to have a welfare program where everyone gets a shiny image just so they can feel good about themselves.  That renders the avatar or badge utterly meaningless.

Badges are hardly an incentive.
If someone starts to work on a project only to get a badge...sad, sad fellow I'd say.
Knowing you did good work is it's own reward.

Badges are a symbol.  Just like an Olympic medal is a symbol.  It would be much easier and cheaper to go to your favorite goldsmith and ask him to cast a medallion for you.  But people compete in the Olympics because of what a gold medal represents.

In the same way, badges represent project participation.  And if a member fails to participate, then project leaders can (and have) ask the admins to remove badges.

Does every feature most other forums have for granted have to be weighed and given to only "special" people? What happened to good ol' fashioned giving just cause you can? Christmas spirit and all that jazz?

The admins are not obligated to do a ruddy thing.  You're acting like you're entitled to what you're asking for.  Stop being such a spoiled brat.

[Mongoose]

To be honest, I don't feel like adding user-defined avatars would necessarily cause any sort of extended to-do about them, at least after the initial newness wore off.  I'm a member of a couple of Descent-related forums with user-uploaded avatars limited to 64x64, and no one even mentions them outside of posts in a dedicated testing forum.  They're just a small way of adding a bit of personality to a post and making a particular user's posts more recognizable (particularly if said user, like me, uses the same avatar for seven years and counting ).

That being said, I've always thought that the admin/project-badge only policy works well for this particular forum, as they help to emphasize the focus on modding that this community is largely built upon.  I've certainly never minded not having one while I've been here (though that little gold star which seems to have disappeared without my notice was admittedly fun ).

[Colonol Dekker]

If i want to blow my avatar trumpet that badly i'll post on gamewarden. . .

[TrashMan]

TrashMan, you're falling into your own combative habits again.  You're running off at the mouth and posting without any self-discipline whatsoever.  Furthermore, you managed to misunderstand practically everything you responded to.

I am going to make one post containing a point-by-point rebuttal to your litany of complaints.  After this post, if you can ask thoughtful, intelligent, and non-provocatory questions, you may ask away.  But if you continue to be combative and argue as if you're entitled to everything you ask for, I will monkey you for one week.

I'm nothing of a sort. Funny how you manage to misunderstand me so often.

I'm not advocating the removal of badges. I like em. I was just saying "what if". Can't a man wonder about stuff without being mauled around here?



Now then:

You completely misunderstood Mobius's point.  The length of time required to create an avatar, or a badge, is irrelevant.  Mobius meant that avatars would be a big distraction.  People should not focus on avatars, which are superficial, but on hosted project stuff, which is the real meat and potatoes of what HLP is all about.

Never distracted me from anything. Nor anyone else I know, and I'm a regular on a dozen forums that have various modding projects, or pure game projects.
Not to sound offensive, but just how easily do you think people are distracted? Heck, I'd say you're insulting the intelligence of modders who come here.

Again, you completely misunderstood the point.  Clutter has nothing to do with it.  Having an avatar is a privilege, one which the admins reserve for themselves.

And having BIG shiny avatars compared to tiny ones would also be one. Your point?
Or are you saying that having big shiny avatars doesn't also serve in the ego fueling capacitiy. You can't deny that they do, at least in small part.

Does every feature most other forums have for granted have to be weighed and given to only "special" people? What happened to good ol' fashioned giving just cause you can? Christmas spirit and all that jazz?

The admins are not obligated to do a ruddy thing.  You're acting like you're entitled to what you're asking for.  Stop being such a spoiled brat.

I'm not asking for anything myself.
I'm discussing. WONDERING... ASKING... you might want to stop acting like a inquisitor.
Whatever.

[Bluecap]

I'm honestly so curious, TrashMan, as to why it's important to you personally to have such things as post counts and avatars on forums in the first place, having been someone who grew up posting and utilizing Bulletin Board Services (BBS) and Usenet. Your argument is largely based upon two things:

• Other forums have had the features you've noted.
• You want the features you've noted.

Given that forums are supposed to be based upon the community and not the individual, your arguments don't even hold merit unless you can somehow substantiate and explain how the features you require would dramatically strengthen, build, and draw this community closer together. At this point, you have not done that, whereas Goober has presented a very admirable (heck, I'm a new forumkin here, an old veteran of ForumPlanet, HomeLAN, and many other large gaming communities...and I actually like his ideas) and well-thought out arguments for why his system works towards building the community.

[TrashMan]

It's not important. Sure, avatars would be nice, but that's it. Nice.
Not a must-have, not needed. I don't have an avatars of all the forums I'm on (for other reason tough).

So, no, it's not personally important to me. It's just the so negative attitude I don't like.

As for arguments. Would avatars dramatically strengthen, build, and draw this community closer together? No.
Would they do the opposite? No.
Does the lack of avatars make the community "stronger"? I've seen no evidence to point that way.

Seriously, you're SERIOUSLY overestimating the importance and impact of avatars.
It's just a tiny image for God's sake, not a realm-shaking revolutionary flame.

[captain-custard]

how about just allowing squad avators that way ppl will be more involved in the multiplayer and advancement of the game ....

these avators can only be ok'd by the squad leaders (admin, mod) and there fore you still gain control over content......

[Black Wolf]

Oh Gawd. How many times have we had this discussion? I figure every, what, 2-3 years? When a new batch of newbs have graduated into becoming regular members and they suddenly notice they don't have avatars. This is HLP. Other forums have Avatars. HLP doesn't. Other Forums have Image Sigs. HLP doesn't. OTher forums have insane spammers, ridiculous pointless clutter and a whole load of crap  to wade through. HLP doesn't.

I like it this way. It's worked this way for the better part of a decade. It's not going to change. Deal.

[TrashMan]

OTher forums have insane spammers, ridiculous pointless clutter and a whole load of crap  to wade through. HLP doesn't.

You sure about this?

I like it this way. It's worked this way for the better part of a decade. It's not going to change. Deal.

But...but..  Obama promised us change!

[Polpolion]

OTher forums have insane spammers, ridiculous pointless clutter and a whole load of crap  to wade through. HLP doesn't.

You sure about this?

On the off chance, let's say that this is actually true. Now should the admins say to themselves "There's already spam here. I guess a little more couldn't hurt.", or should they say to themselves "There's already spam here. What can I do to stop that?". And now let's leave admins out of this completely. Does the fact that there is spam here make it okay for there to be avatars? Does the fact that a murderer killed one person make it okay for him to kill another?

[TrashMan]

Let me get this straight...you're equating avatars with child murder?