[AlphaOne]

Hold up did the Collie ever used its BFGreens on the Lucy ?

Also while i do agree that some ships need to be rebalanced given the advent of beams placing multiple Lreds and 2 BFReds on the Lucy class from derelict was IMO a BIG mistake altough it was integral for the play and i loved it.

That ship was even more powerfull in a way then the Sath. At least you can take out the Sath's beam cannons .

And I believe this version of the Lucy is a bit closer to what should be . But the Collie getting its arse scorched this bad seems a bit.......i dont know how to say this unreal perhaps??

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Eh, the Colossus doesn't overcharge its beam cannons by default, which is why I left it as is.

The Lucifer, on the other hand, is underpowered, and because I know nothing about the Lucifer's armaments in FS1 apart from the two Shivan Super Lasers at the front, I gave it my own layout using as much common sense as I have.

And I believe this version of the Lucy is a bit closer to what should be . But the Collie getting its arse scorched this bad seems a bit.......i dont know how to say this unreal perhaps??

Yeah, it is quite. I would think that the Colossus should ideally neutralise a Lucifer losing only about 25% to 35% of its total hull integrity. Perhaps I should change the LReds to SReds...

[Lucika]

HEY! The Lucy (according to the picture) has no SSL! I know that it was degraded in Fs2 but what if you just add FS1 SSL? (Yeah, the weapon what kills a cruiser in 3 shots...)


PS.: Would you make a Sathanas vs. 2 Lucy mission?

[AlphaOne]

Those SSL are a bit useless . I mean they have limited fire ark ! Also the only reason the Lucy was a ship of terror in FS1 was because it was shielded. However beams can slice through shields like a hot knife through butter.

So Lucy has lost the ONLY major advantage it had in FS1 ! The 2 SSL are not that big of an advantage if they are taken out by bomber wings !

Keep in mind that the big C was designed to take on MULTIPLE as in more then 1 Lucy class vessel at a time and win hand down.

This current version of the Lucy can dish out more damage then its supposed to dish out. So yeah small red's at best would be good.


However it is safe to say that even 2 or 3 Orion class destroyers would be able to broadside the Lucy to death .

[Lucika]

However it is safe to say that even 2 or 3 Orion class destroyers would be able to broadside the Lucy to death .

I guess that you mean FS2's Orions, if so, then I agree.

So Lucy has lost the ONLY major advantage it had in FS1 ! The 2 SSL are not that big of an advantage if they are taken out by bomber wings !

Yeah, but  there are no bombers in this mission AND, more importantly, is there any evidence that the bombers can "slice through", as you said, the Lucy's shield?


Or, you mean that the beams drain the shield and the bombers are attacking afterwards? Then the question arouses that whehther or not the Lucy is capable to deal a serious amount of dmg until her shields and cannons are dealt with (not necessaryy against the Colly, tho)

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Those SSL are a bit useless . I mean they have limited fire ark ! Also the only reason the Lucy was a ship of terror in FS1 was because it was shielded. However beams can slice through shields like a hot knife through butter.

This current version of the Lucy can dish out more damage then its supposed to dish out. So yeah small red's at best would be good.

The other thing about the SSLs, as highlighted by at least two other members in the community, is that they never damage the Colossus if it is below 75% hull integrity. Still, because they are the originals, and they are VERY accurate, I equip them.

And yeah, I'll have to deal with that LRed thing. I gave it too much firepower.

Perhaps an SRed swap or revert to Shivan Turret Lasers...

Also note that using LReds or BFReds to replace the Lucifer's main guns will only make things worse, because both beams, although exhibiting shorter ranges than the SSL, do more damage. If you put BFReds in place of the SSLs, there is no contest.

PS.: Would you make a Sathanas vs. 2 Lucy mission?

No. I FREDded this very simple mission (which I pass off as a TSM) because I really wanted to see a Lucifer with teeth duke it out with the Colossus, hence my modifications to the Lucy's guns. The reason the player is still involved is because I don't know how to use the cutscene feature and because I wanted to give the player every option except intervening and committing suicide.

Yeah, but  there are no bombers in this mission AND, more importantly, is there any evidence that the bombers can "slice through", as you said, the Lucy's shield?

Have you ever been hit by an anti-fighter beam before? There's your answer.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

A third version has been uploaded and may be downloaded from here (NOT DIRECT).

Here is the modification I've made:

- Drastically toned down the Lucifer's weapons so that the Colossus can destroy it without losing too much hull integrity.

Given that the Colossus was designed with the threat of the Lucifer in mind, it seems a bit wrong for it to not be able to destroy one with relative ease. With this in mind, this third version is meant to set that straight. I playtested it once on Insane, and the Colossus destroyed the Lucifer, losing only 39% of its hull. If you exclude the 22% done by the Shivan Super Lasers' range advantage, the Colossus only sustains 17% hull damage.

[AlphaOne]

This is more likely.

Well the thing is even if you use bombers and assuming the Lucy shields can be drained (which im not too sure about but it would make a lot of sence) then bombers can hammer away at the Lucy with relative ease  because the Collie would keep hammering away at the shields and the shields would collapse.


However if the Lucy remains impervious to bomber attack's then the Collie just hammers away at the Lucy with its beams. Also i believe the Collie should be able to make full use of all the features we see in the main FS2 campaign such as beam overloading and such.

But still this last version is what the Lucy IMO should be all about. It WAS a ship of terror but beams made it noting more then a hard nut to crack.

Oh yeah and since 2 Orions can gather more heavy broadside BGreens turrets then the Collie i would say they should be able to pound the Lucy even faster. That is unless they are take out before they can take out the Lucy.

In that case perhaps Hatties would be a better choice ??

[eliex]

Even faster if the Lucifer is destroyed via reactor destruction.

[AlphaOne]

Even faster asuming the gunners on the Collie or the Orion's can actualy hit them )

[Droid803]

The thing is, Orions don't have the HP to withstand many hits from a SSL.
Which is why even though two of them may have more firepower than the Colly, they only have 1/5th to total HP combined.
Hatshpesuts don't offer too much bonus even when compared with Orions. (they only total to have 270k HP, which isn't much compared to the one million the Colly has.)

[AlphaOne]

Yeah i know that however there is something that bothers me ! Does the Lucy still get to keep those 800k points even after the advent of beams. Cuz in all fairness a ship like that would be capable of a max 400 k points now that it is without shields so to speak.

Even those 400 k seem rather much.

I must admit there are a few things i would like to know even now regarding the Lucy . However i can not seem to get a definitive answer since what is cannon does not make too much sense .

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Well, that's the fun of being a FreeSpace fan and making missions like these. You get as much canon information as possible, then create your own "fanon" from there, post it up here for the rest of us to see and get critiqued.

The Lucifer still has 800 000 hitpoints even without shields, assuming that it had the same amount in FS1.

Another thing to note about the Shivan Super Laser is that, despite being less powerful than even an LRed, it is far more accurate and tends to hit more turrets and subsystems than a beam. The reason the Lucifer in all three versions of TSM-69 pose a threat to the Colossus is because the SSLs' accuracy and huge range advantage over any other beam, including the BFRed and LRBGreen, means that it can theoretically destroy every subsystem and turret on the Colossus before the latter can get within beam range.

[AlphaOne]

Yeah i seem to remember the SSL having massive range ! Even so you are asuming the Collie would go on and engage the Lucy at the furthest point . However you could have the Collie warp in closer to the Lucy . Also if the Collie came out of subspace at say 20 km away from the Lucy and asuming it exited facing or in the general direction of the Lucy it should be able to close the distance rather fast since it take a while for a ship out of subspace to slow down . 

There are many variables and you made a superb teaser so to speak of what the Collie was all about.

The Collie was there in order to crush the life out of anithing Lucyfer class and below with minimal risk of being destroyed. And not to mention leave in awe all those who dare oppose it.


Also does the big C manage to take out the reactors of the Lucy ???

Cuz if it managed to pull off something like that then i must say the Lucy would be toast so fast it would make your head spin.

[Droid803]

The SSL has a range of 30km.
If the Lucifer hung at around that range and started pummeling the Colossus as it approaches, it'll probably kill the Colossus with minimal damage. Well, its not like that's how standard engagements usually go though.

[AlphaOne]

Nope. Did you read what Androgeus said. He already did this and the Collie took damage indeed but once the Collie was in range it ripped the Lucy apart in no time.

[Lucika]

Yeah, but  there are no bombers in this mission AND, more importantly, is there any evidence that the bombers can "slice through", as you said, the Lucy's shield?

Have you ever been hit by an anti-fighter beam before? There's your answer.


It is a beam, for God's sake!!!! 

I am talking about anti-capship bombs like Helios... and the bomber's primary weaponry...

[Chrisatsilph]

I agree with Alphaone about the Colossus getting whooped. The Colossus was designed to fit 12 Lucifers with its massive hull, and yet it gets smashed by 1 Lucifer. Not to mention the Colossus took 20 years to build. In reality the Colossus was designed to destroy everything that the GTVA encounted in freespace 1, Which it would.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

...does the big C manage to take out the reactors of the Lucy ???

Three of them on my playtest.

Which it would.

Which it should.

[Gregster2k]

Androgeos Exeunt, I'd like to see a version of this mission where both the Lucifer and the Colossus have launched or are launching every fighter squadron they contain, with appropriate orders for each.

I was originally going to suggest "the Terran side knows to disarm the Super Lasers and Beams, and their primary target will be the Reactors", but I just realized that technically this Lucifer may also possess sheath shielding, therefore no fighter/bomber attack will penetrate its defenses!  So, logically, the official GTVA protocol for attacking a Lucifer-class would probably involve launching all space superiority fighters to screen from bomber attack.  The Colossus' bombers would not be deployed.

Therefore, the Colossus' fighter compliment, as described by its cinematic, may primarily consist of space superiority fighters, interceptors, and heavy assault fighters (exact classes unknown).  The Colossus may take on more bomber wings for standard missions, but for a true Lucifer hunting configuration, a Colossus may only need as many bombers as would be necessary to pursue and destroy a Lucifer in Subspace (worst case scenario).

Regarding the Shivans, your guess is as good as mine regarding the class and quantity of small craft carried aboard a Lucifer, or the orders that would be given to these craft.