Author Topic: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 (Updated 18-04-14)  (Read 25573 times)

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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required
There were no directives or the contradicted the actual goal.  Well maybe they don't but the player can't do both the stated directive and achieve the overall goal.  As for disarming while they are talking that's not a good plan.  Firing before being told is usually very bad. 

One other thing about the early missions.  Since you seem to be trying to follow a canon time line doesn't having even one Vorlon die contradict the show?  I can't remember where but isn't there a reference to a Vorlon death (possibly Kosh) being the first one in ages.  I took that to mean none had died since the Shadows went into the 1000 year sleep. 

On the other hand there is nothing to say the Vorlon fighters are actually flown by Vorlons.  They could just be telepathically controlled. 
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Offline Angelus

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required
There were no directives or the contradicted the actual goal.  Well maybe they don't but the player can't do both the stated directive and achieve the overall goal.  As for disarming while they are talking that's not a good plan.  Firing before being told is usually very bad. 

One other thing about the early missions.  Since you seem to be trying to follow a canon time line doesn't having even one Vorlon die contradict the show?  I can't remember where but isn't there a reference to a Vorlon death (possibly Kosh) being the first one in ages.  I took that to mean none had died since the Shadows went into the 1000 year sleep. 

On the other hand there is nothing to say the Vorlon fighters are actually flown by Vorlons.  They could just be telepathically controlled. 


That's actually true, Kosh was the first Vorlon in ages that died.

There are references that unlike the Shadows, which mostly use members of lesser species, Vorlons Remote control their Fighters.
Although not mentioned, telepathy is most likely the way. Not mentioned in the show, thus not canon.

On the other hand, it is mentioned in the show ( at least two times ), that the Vorlon ships are sentient beings
( season two - where the crew of B5 uses Kosh's ship to hide President Santiago Doctor from EA ), the Doc said that the ship sing to him.
Also after the death of Kosh Naranek, his ship cremated itself in the sun.
In season 4, Kosh Ulkesh's ship leaves B5 on it's own while Kosh Ulkesh and ( what's left of ) Kosh Naranek are fighting. This could be canon.

We can also assume that the Vorlon fighters are sentient beings, capable of fighting on their own.
And as long no Transports, Dreadnought's ( which are always manned ) are destroyed, it doesn't matter how many fighters get destroyed, at least before the fight with the Shadows begins and Kosh dies.

Remember, Kosh died AFTER the Vorlons engaged the Shadows, while the Transports and the Dreadnought has been damaged, none of 'em where destroyed.
The fighters otoh...

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Offline darkmaster

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
1> Vorlon fighters are not flied by Vorlons. They act as semi-sentients. And my character is not a Vorlon, but one of their bio-ship (which they call Guardians).
2> No Vorlon dies in my campaign, if one dies, you fail, and a message will show up saying that you failed to preserve mission-critical resources.
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Campaign in development:
Guardian of Light (Demo state)(Download DEMO here)
The First Invasion - Part 1 (Planning Concept)

Single Mission :
Human-Narn First Contact (Download here)

 

Offline Angelus

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required
Yeah, what i said. :D


Just out of curiosity...what can we expect from the next release ( story wise )?
IIRC, i said already that Vorlons are one of my favorite species from B5 so...

If you want to keep it as a secret, that's ok, though.
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Offline darkmaster

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
I'm gonna keep it secret, but it will definitely follow the show's timeline, and you will meet that ship again if you continue to clear bonuses.
TBP's apprentice FREDDER.

Campaign in development:
Guardian of Light (Demo state)(Download DEMO here)
The First Invasion - Part 1 (Planning Concept)

Single Mission :
Human-Narn First Contact (Download here)

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required
That brings up the question of if the Vorlons need to be close(as in the mission) to give orders or not. 

My personal theory is that the ships are "Grown" by the Vorlons.  Not really alive in their own right but given life by the Vorlons.  They basically become a part of the Vorlon or more to the point the Vorlon gives a part of himself to the ship thus establishing a link with the ship.  Loosing a ship would be like cutting off a finger.  The Vorlon dying would be like loosing your mind.  Hence Kosh's the ship couldn't live without that mind and destroyed itself. 

Anyway what I'm trying to say is you should think of the way you want to present this overall in the campaign. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline darkmaster

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
I personally think that Vorlon fighters are controlled by a "common mind", a psychic link between them and the Vorlons, rather than any individual Vorlon. (A transport belongs to its owner, and thus cannot live without its owner. But the fighters... euh... they belong to the community (and obviously no Vorlons lose fingers if they died) :D
TBP's apprentice FREDDER.

Campaign in development:
Guardian of Light (Demo state)(Download DEMO here)
The First Invasion - Part 1 (Planning Concept)

Single Mission :
Human-Narn First Contact (Download here)

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required
Slight mistake in my mission 3 report.  It should be EA Nemesis not Vengeance. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required
My personal theory is ...

everybody has one. I have one too. I almost fredded my personal theory  :lol: Almost is the word.
This is how darkmaster thinks about it okay  :)

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Offline LeGuille

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required
Well, when the second "Kosh" arrived, it became apparent that there was a sort of shared mind. From everything I saw in B5, the Vorlon psychology is such that they share a common mind, as if they are all on conference call at he same time. When a Vorlon speaks he speaks for all Vorlons. "We are all Kosh."

The ships I agree that they are grown, and that it has a symbiotic relationship with the Vorlon that pilots it. But to me, each Vorlon is a vessel that speaks the voice of the whole. The encounter suit I think is their only way of showing individuality. If you kill one Vorlon, they all knew about it instantly, and it hurt them all, instantly. It was as if they all could exist together in some sort of conference call, or central mind, and they all were that mind. I see the Vorlons as having shown that "Omniscience" and "Omnipresence" by all being one mind, and the individual was a voice of the Vorlon whole, so in essence the 'one being' can be in many places.

If you could call the Vorlon whole God, I would guess the encounter suits they travel in, are Angels. Makes sense to me.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 03:34:54 am by LeGuille »
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Offline CaptJosh

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
Not if you actually read the Bible. Angels are created beings, not parts of God.
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Offline LeGuille

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required
Not if you actually read the Bible. Angels are created beings, not parts of God.

Yes, they are created. But they are created from the essence of god, as is everything else. Angels spoke God's Word. The Vorlon Ambassadors speak the Vorlon Whole's word.
4 "Beware of the truth.... Although much sought after, truth can be dangerous to the seeker." -- God-Emperor Leto II, God Emperor of Dune

 

Offline darkmaster

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required
Not if you actually read the Bible. Angels are created beings, not parts of God.

Yes, they are created. But they are created from the essence of god, as is everything else. Angels spoke God's Word. The Vorlon Ambassadors speak the Vorlon Whole's word.

Judging from the difference in personality between Kosh 1 and Kosh 2 I think that despite all the common mind or common psychic link they still maintain some kind of personality and privacy among them.
TBP's apprentice FREDDER.

Campaign in development:
Guardian of Light (Demo state)(Download DEMO here)
The First Invasion - Part 1 (Planning Concept)

Single Mission :
Human-Narn First Contact (Download here)

 

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
right. Kosh cared for the lesser races, all other Vorlon's did not (remember what Lyta said).

it's pleasing that Darkmaster has understood the most important lesson for creating campaigns, a good story. A story that starts a discussion  :yes: I remember when he was out to "just create some fun". I hope you see now that story equals fun  :nod:.
 
My original Vorlon Campaign was supposed to be named Pawn and I think that's exactly what the Vorlon fighters are. Their warships are tools, assets, they just have their own mind to be a more efficiant fighting machine (learning from your enemy, remember ; ?) So in that case, they are like Angels.
They carry and force the Vorlon way.
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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
how do you turn radar on infinity? i saw the ship, but can't find the key
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 09:10:45 pm by rayray18 »

 

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
by using the key you did bind. Check the control setup under options (or by pressing F2).
It's called set-radar range if I remember correctly.
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
Any updates since this release?
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline darkmaster

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
Any updates since this release?

I'm afraid that there will be no updates until i finish my diplomas and get a professional job (which means, in 1,5 years).
I really really apologize for this, but I'm going for 2 diplomas at the same time (pretty ambitious huh?) while I'm not sure that I can handle either of them.
Currently I have an update version (which correct the difficulty level, include life regeneration for Kosh... but I'm not gonna post it since it is not finished for all existing missions and there was no testing for that version).
I won't promise anything but maybe one day I will come back with the whole campaign finished and tested ^^.

TBP's apprentice FREDDER.

Campaign in development:
Guardian of Light (Demo state)(Download DEMO here)
The First Invasion - Part 1 (Planning Concept)

Single Mission :
Human-Narn First Contact (Download here)

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
I won't promise anything but maybe one day I will come back with the whole campaign finished and tested ^^.

I just discovered this beautiful mini campaign and as the Vorlons ships are my favorites from the show I would like to ask whether anyone knows if darkmaster will finish or update this campaign one fine day?

Also I have some nitpicks about the Vorlon fighter. Is it possible to move the flare on firing below the center of the screen? Because right now you can't see your own beam and this is really strange. Also in the first level there is a Vorlon transport in a cutscene firing a red beam and not a green one. But in the show even the red Vorlon transport fired a green beam when the Vorlons attacked the Shadows as well...

Update:

I've finished the campaign now and I got some more issues. While the campaign works with 3.6.9INF, already the first mission does not start correctly with 3.6.10INF or 3.6.12INF builds. Shouldn't these be backwards compatible? Could some of you specialists look into this? What is the meaning of "Inferno" and the letters following the number anyway? I can't find anything specific in Google or on the TBP page.

Also the mission with the Dilgar was much too hard even on easy. I read about this here already, but while one could easily fix this by removing some of the Dilgar capital ships, in my opinion the problem runs deeper. I mean with those multiple power beam equipped ships how was the EA supposed to defeat them before the EA aquired power beams themselves? This makes no sense in the B5 continuity, these ships are completely overpowered! Besides, those candy-bar pink power beams look stupid too and they also kept firing through their own ship. Oh, and I don't think that Vorlon transports have multiple beam turrets...

Last not least something is wrong with either the lighting in the Dilgar mission or the inferno build used. Because both the green Vorlon ships and the supposedly orange Dilgar ships end up deep red in open space, while their preview window on targeting still shows them in the correct colors. Any suggestions?

As for the Vorlon ships, I agree with everyone here that they are living beings, although I rather see them like horses or dogs accustomed to a special master. I don't think the Vorlons share a big mind like implied in the campaign, otherwise Kosh wouldn't have been able to do what he has done. And regarding the bonus shuttle, I didn't like the fact that I was able to catch up with it and fire on it. Combined with the flare obscuring the target I never knew whether I had destroyed it or it vanished on its own for some reason.

Update:
After creating a new pilot for the Inferno builds I managed to get the mod going with 3.6.12r_INF and Zathras 2.0 after ignoring some warnings, 3.6.12d crashes though. What do these letters mean again ;)?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 12:15:03 pm by wesp5 »

 
Re: RELEASE Guardian Of Light DEMO 2 and plot discussion (INFERNO build required)
"r" stands for "release" (I think)
"d" is for "debug"

Dont use the debug version.


Regarding colours and lightning:
Thats not a bug, but a feature. In Real Life the same object can appear differently coloured depending on the surrounding lightning. This is also true for objects in the FreeSpace Engine. This effect may be more noticable in TBP because most ships are more homogenious coloured than in Freespace.