Author Topic: Hecate battle?  (Read 9639 times)

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Offline Kosh

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Crazy firepower? Their best weapon is a frontal BGreen, so you would be more excited by an Orion Vs. Orion battle. This happens only in-game, in the Universe the Hecate is supposed to be much better.


It is in that it is no where near as vulnerable to bombers than the Orion. Given how powerful bombs have become in the FS universe this is very important. They generally seem to complement each other pretty well.



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Offline Galemp

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Bring EMP missiles. I'm told they don't have the right flag, but I somehow used them to kill the Tiamat.

I think it's because the shockwave does damage that isn't negated. It's a tiny amount but it adds up.
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Offline General Battuta

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Bring EMP missiles. I'm told they don't have the right flag, but I somehow used them to kill the Tiamat.

I think it's because the shockwave does damage that isn't negated. It's a tiny amount but it adds up.

I think you're right. When I heard it didn't have the bigdamage flag that seemed like the only reasonable alternative.

 

Offline Mobius

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You can't take out a Moloch with simple primaries. They don't have the flag needed to inflict lethal damage to corvette size warships and above.
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Offline Falcon

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I think Hecate class destroyers are better served as big lazy boy chairs for Command or some high ranking officer. Every Freespace 2 mission I've flown in with a Hecate class destroyer usually ends up with the Hecate fleeing, taking some bad ass damage, sitting there dishing out orders, or all of the above. Seriously though who needs a bunch of high powered turrets stealing your kills anyways? Also I lol'd when the Phoenicia died on Insane difficulty.

 

Offline General Battuta

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I think Hecate class destroyers are better served as big lazy boy chairs for Command or some high ranking officer. Every Freespace 2 mission I've flown in with a Hecate class destroyer usually ends up with the Hecate fleeing, taking some bad ass damage, sitting there dishing out orders, or all of the above. Seriously though who needs a bunch of high powered turrets stealing your kills anyways? Also I lol'd when the Phoenicia died on Insane difficulty.

It is a carrier.

 

Offline Mobius

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To be honest I don't understand why certain people think of destroyers as oversized corvettes intended to jump in, destroy a target and then jump out. That's not what destroyers are supposed to do. They're the center of a battlegroup and their launch/recovery capabilities are not to be wasted.

Obviously, in case of attack, destroyers should have enough weaponry to disencourage corvette sized warships and below...yet still, it doesn't mean the "typical" scenario involving a destroyer is a capship versus capship battle.

Episodes like that should be extremely rare in the FS2 era and shouldn't occur when the battle is balanced. I guess the Psamtik would have never engaged the Cyrene directly if that destroyer wasn't already weakened.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 03:27:48 pm by Mobius »
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Offline General Battuta

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Concur.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Then FreeSpace has no true front-line warship.
There's the Colossus, but oh wait, it was destroyed.

 

Offline Rodo

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In freespace there is not that much destroyer on destroyer action, but that's because the campaign is made to give the player a role in the story, you all know that... player does not take part in cap on cap action.

certainly in real life I would expect big warships to be committed especially for resolving difficult situations.
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Offline IceFire

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Then FreeSpace has no true front-line warship.
There's the Colossus, but oh wait, it was destroyed.
The Corvette is.
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Offline eliex

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Also, a corvettes hull strength is very close to its faction's destroyer:
Deimos - 8 000
Hecate - 10 000                    <For the Terrans and Shivans anyway>

Sobek - 8 000
Hatshepsut - 13 500

Moloch - 8 000
Ravana - 10 000

With a destroyer's main beams taken out, 2 coordinated corvettes can easily take out it out. In fact, 20 minutes is quite short in real-life fighting. It's in game time that its long.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Then FreeSpace has no true front-line warship.
There's the Colossus, but oh wait, it was destroyed.

Neither does real life.

 

Offline ssmit132

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True, the introduction of the aircraft carrier effectively made large ship-to-ship engagements obsolete.

 

Offline Droid803

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To be honest I don't understand why certain people think of destroyers as oversized corvettes intended to jump in, destroy a target and then jump out. That's not what destroyers are supposed to do. They're the center of a battlegroup and their launch/recovery capabilities are not to be wasted.

Obviously, in case of attack, destroyers should have enough weaponry to disencourage corvette sized warships and below...yet still, it doesn't mean the "typical" scenario involving a destroyer is a capship versus capship battle.

For the SD Ravana, it would. Sure, its got launch and recovery capabilities as well, but if its not attacking something, chances are its dead. On the offensive, it can bring its four main beams against a single target, vaporize it in seconds, then leave. However, if it were to just sit back and launch fighters, it would be over if it got attacked by a Sobek and a few bomber wings, as illustrated by the FS2 campaign. The Ravana took out the majority of a battlegroup in a surprise offensive, but fell to a single corvette and a bomber wing when itself was attacked.

Yes, I do know that this is an extreme case, and that the Ravana is only suited to Shivan strategies of using their warships as overwhelming anti-warship on the offensive. Additionally, a battle involving a Ravana attacking anything can hardly be regarded as a 'balanced' battle unless Alpha One is there to take out the main beams.

Indeed the GTVA would probably refrain from committing destroyers to combat other destroyers unless absolutely necessary, or unless there is a good chance of coming out on top with minimal damage.

Then FreeSpace has no true front-line warship.
There's the Colossus, but oh wait, it was destroyed.

Neither does real life.

Well, there was up until WW2. Before, there were Battleships which were meant to be able to take down essentially anything that tried to attack them.
The advent of the carrier changed all that, with most Battleships being sunk before they were in range to even fire off a shot.
Well, this is also true in Freespace, how ships can be completely neutered by a bomber wing long before they come into beam range - even a subspace jump away, in the case of the first SJ Sathanas.

So yeah, I guess that the Hecate's superior anti-fighter power would make it superior to the Orion, as fighters and bombers are the real things that do damage. In the 'battlegroup' system, the Hecate (Navy carrier equivalent) would optimally have the escort of Corvettes and cruisers (Navy destroyer equivalent) to fend off enemy attacks. An attack by another destroyer would just be handled by its bomber wings. The fire support is largely unnecessary when you have a wing of Ursas loaded with Helios that can destroy the entirety of the opposing warship's armament and proceed to level it in less time than it would take for return fire to do the same thing.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 06:43:56 pm by Droid803 »
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Offline Commander Zane

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Then FreeSpace has no true front-line warship.
There's the Colossus, but oh wait, it was destroyed.
The Corvette is.
All of the Corvettes in FreeSpace are just big Cruisers with slightly angrier colored flashlights and near-Destroyer hull.

Then FreeSpace has no true front-line warship.
There's the Colossus, but oh wait, it was destroyed.

Neither does real life.
Oh and by the way, real-life Cruisers are the closest thing to a warship that you'll get. Thought just about everything out there now is a giant missile platform... :blah:
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 09:25:46 pm by Commander Zane »

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Basically FreeSpace 2's capital ships go:

some crummy cruiser (fenris, for example) x4 = some better cruiser (e.g. leviathan)
some better cruiser x2 = some corvette
some corvette x2 = some destroyer

and then supers. they've got 800,000 (lucifer or hades (i think)) or 1,000,000 HP (sath, colly)

There are some oddballs (like the lilith) but this is the general trend.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Then FreeSpace has no true front-line warship.
There's the Colossus, but oh wait, it was destroyed.
The Corvette is.
All of the Corvettes in FreeSpace are just big Cruisers with slightly angrier colored flashlights and near-Destroyer hull.

Then FreeSpace has no true front-line warship.
There's the Colossus, but oh wait, it was destroyed.

Neither does real life.
Oh and by the way, real-life Cruisers are the closest thing to a warship that you'll get. Thought just about everything out there now is a giant missile platform... :blah:

And the giant missile platforms are used largely to defend giant fighter platforms.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Well that is about all Cruisers in the FS Universe are good for, using their anti fighter capabilities to harass bomber wings, or generally take down anything smaller than them

 

Offline eliex

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Hmm, with the appearance of corvettes cruisers are obsolete in my opinion. They are simply too expensive and are easily destroyed by a wing of Basilisks with 80 hornets each.

Perhaps they are small command points or support craft during strike raids - as the Fenris techroom description says.