Author Topic: Battlestar Fighter Complements  (Read 29335 times)

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Offline Adalla

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
Here's a discussion about this on the Battlestar Wiki forum FYI.


 

Offline Snagger

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
indeed, the truth is they could store ships in the middle to. there are many parts of the ship we have not seen. there are also many lower levels.
We don't have any idea if there is any space set aside in the main hull for other vessels, though anything other than a corridor to move items from one pod to the other would seem unlikely.

As to the assertions over the comparison to the WWII Essex class carriers, sure they had engines, boiler rooms, crew quarters, magazines and the like, but they were spread over several decks.  Everything on the Galactica's pods is basically on one deck, as the vast majority of the volume of the pods is dedicated to the landing bays, which are large enough to each take a squadron of C17s.  If the Essex is a quarter the size of a Galactica pod, then why can't you fit four C17s on it?

The Galactica pods have only one full deck below the landing deck, with the deck between seeming to consist only of a viewing gallery and length-ways corridor.  the hangar deck itself is extremely linited on space, comprising at most 1/3 the width of the pod, each launch tube being roughly twice in length the width of the hangar, or more.  that means that of the space of the hangar deck, at least two thirds of it is occupied by launch tubes.  then there's the magazines, fuel storage, parts and tools stores, crew rooms, parking bays for tugs, fork lifts and so on, life support systems, generators, water supply, the extensive power and ammunition system for the CIWS batteries.

To fit all of that in such a single deck is going to severely limit the space of the hangar.  To believe that 160 (or the 200+ figures that some give) Vipers, plus the other craft, could be routinely stationed aboard such a vessel id nothing other than ridiculous "fanwank"

 

Offline Angelus

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
indeed, the truth is they could store ships in the middle to. there are many parts of the ship we have not seen. there are also many lower levels.
We don't have any idea if there is any space set aside in the main hull for other vessels, though anything other than a corridor to move items from one pod to the other would seem unlikely.



The Galactica pods have only one full deck below the landing deck...

To fit all of that in such a single deck is going to severely limit the space of the hangar.  To believe that 160 (or the 200+ figures that some give) Vipers, plus the other craft, could be routinely stationed aboard such a vessel id nothing other than ridiculous "fanwank"

Around 160-200 Vipers ( for a Columbia class ) IS a good number. It makes sense.
We don't know if there is a storage deck ( or storage room ) beneath the hangar deck.
In Razor we see that the Cylons deploy the Hades class Basestar, which can carry ( in TOS ) 300 Raiders.
Granted, no one ever confirmed ANY numbers ( except in the mini, Adama said "one squadron on the starboard pod" = 40 Vipers ).



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Offline Meleardil

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
To fit all of that in such a single deck is going to severely limit the space of the hangar.  To believe that 160 (or the 200+ figures that some give) Vipers, plus the other craft, could be routinely stationed aboard such a vessel id nothing other than ridiculous "fanwank"

Your arrogance is irritating. I answer with Horatius: Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. So, the following numbers are not for you.

 There are 3 decks there plus the main deck...according to my observations. The whole pod is 650 meter long. The hangar section is 350 meter long and about 100 meter wide. Thats 4 x 100 x 350 = 140 000 square meter. One viper needs maximum 50 square meter space. Lets assume that only 10% of that space is used for viper storage. Thats 280 viper for EACH pod. It is only the possibility of course. Therefore any number between 100 and 500 vipers are equally good. We shall decide the number which suits us the best, both for the story and for gameplay.
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Offline wiley

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
I don't know about the numbers but if you remember when lee landed his viper on colonial one, That landing or storage area was huge. Now with the most recent episode Colonial one landed inside the Galactica. It seems to me they can fit a huge number of vipers in various places aboard without impacting landings or launches.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
An ugly picture since I'm using placeholder textures but yes, that is a Boeing 747. :p



The barely visible shape next to it is a MK II Viper.
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Offline Polpolion

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
I honestly think that any number <200 is really small for a vessel of the Galactica's size (Assuming standard outfit, which the Galactica doesn't have anymore). The USS Enterprise, a WWII era vessel carried 90 fighters, in addition to a crew of 2000, and 48 guns of various sizes. All in a space of 230m.

Given miniaturization, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a fully modernized and operational battlestar could have ~300 vipers per pod (Not all actively being used, of course).

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
That is probably the better question.  What is the practical cap for active Vipers?  Not so much a storage space but how many could be controlled from each tube?  I figure one in the tube, one ready to go,  one in flight and one up for refuel/rearm would be the practical max.  So that's 4 per tube. 

Now there could be more in storage fully fueled and armed but getting them into the rotation would be a problem unless there is a major offensive planned where it was well coordinated and there was no possibility of a retreat where all the Vipers needed to land quickly.  Which brings up another limiting factor which I think I mentioned before.  How many can do a combat landing at once? You wouldn't want more that that launched  at any one time under normal circumstances.
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Angelus

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
...Which brings up another limiting factor which I think I mentioned before.  How many can do a combat landing at once? You wouldn't want more that that launched  at any one time under normal circumstances.

Hm, judging from the Mini and episodes throughout the show 20 - 30, probably more.
Also, they only used the rear entrance of the port hangar, in a full grown combat situation ( First Cylon War ),
they probably use all 4 ports, because they have more ( at least 160 :D ) birds in the air.

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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
  To believe that 160 (or the 200+ figures that some give) Vipers, plus the other craft, could be routinely stationed aboard such a vessel id nothing other than ridiculous "fanwank"

Snagger man we are arguing about the fighter complement of a make believe warship in outer space.  At what point were you under the impression that anybody in this thread was doing anything other than "fanwanking."  :P   
 
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Offline newman

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
Snagger man we are arguing about the fighter complement of a make believe warship in outer space.  At what point were you under the impression that anybody in this thread was doing anything other than "fanwanking."  :P   
 

I'd imagine the thought process goes something like "it's OK when I do it" :P
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Offline FraktuRe

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
Honestly the galactica can have as many birds as she wants. The limiting factor is pilots. The evidence points to There being 4 squadrons of 20 Vipers + raptors.

80 vipers per pod in operation. Simple really.  She might have dozens more that nuggets train in, dozens more marked for repairs, dozens more scrapped for parts.
Or something.
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The artist formerly known as Cl1nt.

 

Offline Deckard

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
umm... at this point 80 per pod plus the birds reserve seem to be the numbers..

Although what's the point of this pre-poll?. Are we gonna see 160 birds at once in Diaspora or perhaps within further show frames?.
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Deckard a.k.a The Silencer

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
If you read the first post they are trying to figure out how many Vipers to station on the Theseus. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Snagger

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
OK, for those who I upset, my remarks were intended with an "over the pub table "aw, come on guys" tone", not meant to be bolshy or shouty.  Such are the limitations of text communications.  Anyway, sorry that it came over like that, but I just don't think thatr there's all that much hangar space down there when you factor in the single deck and all the other equipment, stores and facilites that it has to share with the hangar.

Yes, you could store more in the corners of the landing decks, but manning and launching those fighters would take a long time, so it wouldn't be the norm.

So, could G physically take hundreds of fighters - yes.  But could seh efficiently operate and maintain such a large fleet - I don't think so.  And remember, the Raptors are also stored in the hangar deck, not the landing deck, so that's a lot of space lost.  I'll compromise at 120 Vipers fully loaded, spread 60 per side.  It doesn't seem much for a ship nearly a mile long, but it was bult to carry a large compliment of Marines (troop ships are big and empty), their shuttles, and all the supplies, specialist crews, fuel, materials and equipment to deploy for years without support, which would take up an awful lot of that space - just the bunking, food halls, rec and fitness facilities and food stores would account for a sizeable chunk of the main hull.

 

Offline Deckard

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
If you read the first post they are trying to figure out how many Vipers to station on the Theseus. 

Hi, I'm new!. Is the Theseus the same thing that the Bolitho?.

Thanksz!

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Deckard a.k.a The Silencer

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
No. We've not released any photos of the Theseus as yet.

Not deliberately at least. :p
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Offline Polpolion

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Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
OK, for those who I upset, my remarks were intended with an "over the pub table "aw, come on guys" tone", not meant to be bolshy or shouty.  Such are the limitations of text communications.  Anyway, sorry that it came over like that, but I just don't think thatr there's all that much hangar space down there when you factor in the single deck and all the other equipment, stores and facilites that it has to share with the hangar.

Yes, you could store more in the corners of the landing decks, but manning and launching those fighters would take a long time, so it wouldn't be the norm.

So, could G physically take hundreds of fighters - yes.  But could seh efficiently operate and maintain such a large fleet - I don't think so.  And remember, the Raptors are also stored in the hangar deck, not the landing deck, so that's a lot of space lost.  I'll compromise at 120 Vipers fully loaded, spread 60 per side.  It doesn't seem much for a ship nearly a mile long, but it was bult to carry a large compliment of Marines (troop ships are big and empty), their shuttles, and all the supplies, specialist crews, fuel, materials and equipment to deploy for years without support, which would take up an awful lot of that space - just the bunking, food halls, rec and fitness facilities and food stores would account for a sizeable chunk of the main hull.

The only thing that could possibly compromise volume requirements are things not usually found on an aircraft carrier. Engines, power supply, life support, and the likes. I don't know the crew complement of normal Battlestars, but if it's proportional to its size, then they'd have a crew of well over 15000, which I doubt is the case. And I'm not sure, but I don't think a large Marine capacity was a priority of a Battlestar. Doubtlessly, they would have a good amount for security and such, and perhaps a bit more, but if it's anything like today's marines, they'd have special ships to use for assaults, which would be used to carry units sized from companies to regiments. But I doubt they'd stick enough marines on it to hamper its ability as a carrier significantly.

Going back to what I said earlier, crew size shouldn't be much of a limiting factor either. Given that we can physically stow over 2000 people and all of their food and stuff into the volume of a modern aircraft carrier, quadruple that volume for storage, and you've got more than plenty of space for over 4000 people. Now let's look at reasonable crew sizes. From what I know of aircraft carriers, a sizeable chunck complement is the air wing and its men. Let's say that we have 1200 people out of every 3000 to manage that, the normal air wing for a modern carrier being about 85 planes. Let's double that figure, and we have just about 170 planes, and just over 4200 people aboard the ship. And assuming that the engines and life support and other subsystems take up the entire center section of a battlestar, this could all easily fit within the two pods, volumetrically. But this is given what modern aircraft carriers are, not highly fictional spaceships. Even with that said, you're not allowed to simply assert stuff without reason.

 
Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
I am kinda new to the forums and have been tracking the progress of Diaspora regularly everyday through this forum. I just activated my account today. I think this game is very impressive and can hardly wait for the release. I couldn't help but notice the debate about the Galactica's fighter complement and launch capability. I did some research using Battlestarwiki and I'm sure you all have done your own.  I just wanted to bring to the table that Galactica has a complement of 80 Vipers (post Pegasus) and 20+  Raptors (post Pegasus). It is said that before Pegasus she had a complement of 5+ Raptors. She has a crew of 2,641 personnel. she is capeable of launching 40 Vipers at once from the port and starboard launch tubes. Using Zoic's diagram of the Galactica on bsgwiki, I counted 40 launch tubes on one side and when galactica is fully operational can deploy 40 vipers from port and starboard launch tubes. Given the conditions of the combat sortie, one can suggest that before a planned engagement all launch tubes will be loaded minus reserves and raptors. During a defensive engagement any launch pattern under 40 vipers per side is plausible, keeping in mind that some of her fighter complement is already out on patrol sorties. Same case goes with an offensive engagement.  Squadrons are divided between 7 viper and 3 Raptor. I don't know how many pilots are divided up among these squads but I'm sure you guys do or will throw your own spin on it. I mean no disrespect or do I think anyone here is stupid. I think this games progress so far is a big tease and can hardly wait for the release. I among other fans wanna be able to have the privilege to frag squads of toasters, ghost a resurrection ship in the black bird (HOOAH), blow the frack out of a baseship, and defend the colonial fleet to the bitter end. I await further updates and the inevitable release of this game and wish you all my best. Good job  :D

Chris
Former Navy (Hooyah)
Soon to be Army (Hooah)    

 
Re: Battlestar Fighter Complements
During wartime at the peak of her career, I would say 4 squadrons of 20 per pod. This means that each pod would have 80 fighters with a total count of 160. However, with only the 40 tubes that means that only two sqadrons would launch at a single time.
When galactica was turned into a museum, all but one viper squadron was reassigned, leaving the 20 vipers that croaked during the mini-series. (leaving behind quite a number of reserve fighters, to be sure).

I would say that a squadron's reserves is about 35% (rendering as 6 or 7 for the squad of 20).

So, a Galactica-Type Battlestar, during normal wartime operations should have a total of 208 = ( 8 squads of 20 + reserves).

I would also figure that a Raptor squadron could be put through the same numbers: 1 squadron of 20 with a reserve of 6.