[iamzack]

Me too. But that's it. No chasing. No altering what I do to fit some religion's standards for getting in. Etc.

So why don't you go murder a ton of people, steal all their possessions and live a life of leisure?

because that's a total dick move.  just cause there's no reward for behaving doesn't mean you shouldn't behave.

If there's no consequence for your actions, why not be the most self-centered, selfish, ass clown in the universe?

this sounds like a job for... .  PHILOSOPHY!!

or, failing that, it's a job for the legal system.

The legal system is awesome because it's based on "do whatever, just don't infringe on anybody else's rights"

You know, except when people with money get in there and start making drugs illegal and stuff.

[blackhole]

Episcopal church is having a shcism over this very issue right now. Congradulations, you don't know what you're talking about.

That shcism is exactly what I was talking about - How can religion be arguing over what gets you into heaven and what doesn't? That means humans are defining the terms that get you into heaven which removes all possible relation to what they tell you and what actually does.

So why don't you go murder a ton of people, steal all their possessions and live a life of leisure?

I don't need to believe in an afterlife to behave myself. Why do you?

[Flipside]

The legal system is awesome because it's based on "do whatever, just don't infringe on anybody else's rights"

You know, except when people with money get in there and start making drugs illegal and stuff.

Always considered it odd how two of the most dangerous drugs out there are the legal ones.

[iamzack]

Episcopal church is having a shcism over this very issue right now. Congradulations, you don't know what you're talking about.

That shcism is exactly what I was talking about - How can religion be arguing over what gets you into heaven and what doesn't? That means humans are defining the terms that get you into heaven which removes all possible relation to what they tell you and what actually does.

So why don't you go murder a ton of people, steal all their possessions and live a life of leisure?

I don't need to believe in an afterlife to behave myself. Why do you?

The way(s) to get into heaven is debateable because it is just a philosophical thing. IF there is a god, what is it? Etc.

Some people do need threat of consequence to not kill people. I would seriously be out curbstomping little kids if it wasn't illegal.

Edit: actually, just the ugly ones. and the loud ones. and the sticky ones. and the retards. cute, quiet, clean, not-retarded little kids are fine.

[Flipside]

But then, what would be happening to you without those same laws? That is, in a way, why they exist, even tribal instinct can't fix everything.

Edit: actually, just the ugly ones. and the loud ones. and the sticky ones. and the retards. cute, quiet, clean, not-retarded little kids are fine.

So roughly 98% of them then?

[iamzack]

But then, what would be happening to you without those same laws? That is, in a way, why they exist, even tribal instinct can't fix everything.

Edit: actually, just the ugly ones. and the loud ones. and the sticky ones. and the retards. cute, quiet, clean, not-retarded little kids are fine.

So roughly 98% of them then?

Luckily, I avoid paradoxing myself because I have no sense of self-preservation.

[Coolhand1980]

To be honest...yes I would do a lot of bad things if i didn't think i would have to answer for them. I am not saying I would be a killer, but I sure would steal, cheat, and be a player.

[NGTM-1R]

I'm not going to behave if I'm not rewarded. **** you.

And sadly, it is people like you, people unable to maintain a morality in and of themselves, for whom religion was written.

If there's no consequence for your actions, why not be the most self-centered, selfish, ass clown in the universe?

Because there is a consequence, one of this world rather than beyond it. But even in those cases where there is no consequence, or where we can beat the rap so to speak, some of us naturally default to altruistic behavior. And some don't.

That shcism is exactly what I was talking about - How can religion be arguing over what gets you into heaven and what doesn't? That means humans are defining the terms that get you into heaven which removes all possible relation to what they tell you and what actually does.

Because it's all about interpretation. Religion naturally acknowledges itself as fallable, as it claims to be man attempting to to filter the will or the way of something beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend. Mistakes will be made, and it is for this reason that religions grow and evolve like any other organization. Hence the schism, Vatican II, the Council of Nicea, the existence of multiple translations of the Bible, the existence of Protestant churches.

[iamzack]

See, then all you have to do is believe in an eternally forgiving god.

[Flipside]

To be honest...yes I would do a lot of bad things if i didn't think i would have to answer for them. I am not saying I would be a killer, but I sure would steal, cheat, and be a player.

Well, as far as being a player is concerned, it takes two to play, I'm not sure being 'free and easy' is exactly criminal. Of course, using lies in order to do so is unethical and unkind, but that's a personal choice more than a crime, some people have a conscience that will not allow them to behave in such a way, but if 2 people are happy with a casual relationship, then good luck to them.

Edit: We've filled up the new replies box without flaming each other, that's rare....

[Daniel P]

There's no Divine consequence for them. It takes a fool to believe in an afterlife so strongly as to risk being LAPD'd through the head for it

Is that quite harsh what you said.

So what you believe after you die.

[blackhole]

To be honest...yes I would do a lot of bad things if i didn't think i would have to answer for them. I am not saying I would be a killer, but I sure would steal, cheat, and be a player.

I wouldn't, and I don't.

I do not believe in an afterlife. Furthermore, if there is an afterlife, I'm probably going to hell.

I don't care

I try to behave myself for the sake of my fellow human beings, not because I'll get thrown in jail if I don't. I am not perfect and I will make mistakes, but I try to do the right thing because I wouldn't' be able to live with myself if I didn't. I don't get an afterlife, so what I do here, on this planet, is what I will be remembered for. I'd rather be remembered for trying to help people then be another Exxon CEO.

Religion is therefore a product of our own inherent evil.

[WeatherOp]

Edit: We've filled up the new replies box without flaming each other, that's rare....

Yeah, but you must admit Flip, there really isn't much discussion going on. 

[iamzack]

Edit: We've filled up the new replies box without flaming each other, that's rare....

Yeah, but you must admit Flip, there really isn't much discussion going on. 

shuddup

oops, what the **** did i do?

[Daniel P]

Religion is therefore a product of our own inherent evil.

Really. All Religion is evil.  

Lock this topic.  

[iamzack]

Religion is therefore a product of our own inherent evil.

Really. All Religion is evil.  

Lock this topic.  

Atheist zealot. All religion is not, in fact, evil.

What's evil about Buddhists?

[Flipside]

There's no Divine consequence for them. It takes a fool to believe in an afterlife so strongly as to risk being LAPD'd through the head for it

Is that quite harsh what you said.

So what you believe after you die.

I suppose I'm more a supporter of reincarnation, I don't think there's a God up there that judges my actions as such, but I kind of like the idea that each time we go round the wheel, we are learning something for a purpose, good or bad, it's experience.

I think that when you die, you are sent back to learn more, somewhere else, someone else, maybe not even human, but I don't think your actions in one life define what you come back as.

It'd be nice to think we are all an attempt by the Universe to understand itself, that all life is exactly that, similar to the question of whether 'God' can create a puzzle so complex that even He cannot solve it, and that we are that puzzle.

[Flipside]

Edit: We've filled up the new replies box without flaming each other, that's rare....

Yeah, but you must admit Flip, there really isn't much discussion going on. 

There's enough to make the topic interesting

[Daniel P]

Well I am A Baptist.    

And I am NOT  a Zealot

I just quoting him and replied to him.

[blackhole]

Atheist zealot. All religion is not, in fact, evil.

What's evil about Buddhists?

Oh I never said religion was all evil. I simply said it was a product of our inherent self-absorbed nature. Religion, in that view, is a good thing, because it keeps us from being the nasty cheating whores we would be otherwise. At least, it tries to, but then you get priests who go about raping kids...