[karajorma]

I guess that makes it okay to use.

I can't think of many people on this board who have ever been offended by the term, limey. Again, it's about context. I don't see many American's demanding that the New York Yankees change their name.

[General Battuta]

I guess that makes it okay to use.

I can't think of many people on this board who have ever been offended by the term, limey. Again, it's about context. I don't see many American's demanding that the New York Yankees change their name.

Guys, he's obviously correct. The term in question is different from Yank because it's a slur where he's from (the UK). This is a global forum and we all need to get along.

Everyone's trying all this fancy-pants logic to make philosophical points. But we only need second-grade logic here: if it's genuinely hurtful to someone (not pretend hurtful to people who want to score points), don't use it.

[Hellstryker]

I guess that makes it okay to use.

I can't think of many people on this board who have ever been offended by the term, limey. Again, it's about context. I don't see many American's demanding that the New York Yankees change their name.

Guys, he's obviously correct. The term in question is different from Yank because it's a slur where he's from (the UK). This is a global forum and we all need to get along.

Everyone's trying all this fancy-pants logic to make philosophical points. But we only need second-grade logic here: if it's genuinely hurtful to someone (not pretend hurtful to people who want to score points), don't use it.

I never disagreed with that in the first place. What I disagreed with was the whole perma-ban thing.
And as for having something "personal" against Karajorma, I simply disagree with the way he runs his forum, and apparently I'm not the only one.

[General Battuta]

It's not 'his'. The admin forum is a loose council without (at least last time I saw it) any kind of serious hierarchy.

Threatening permaban did rather effectively convey the fact that this was a racial epithet on par with those in use in the US. If we all agree it's as hurtful as those, then it should receive the same punishment.

But look, Kara gave a warning, he was understanding that iamzack might not know the full power of the word -- all went well. No abuse of power here.

[Hellstryker]

It's not 'his'. The admin forum is a loose council without (at least last time I saw it) any kind of serious hierarchy.

Threatening permaban did rather effectively convey the fact that this was a racial epithet on par with those in use in the US. If we all agree it's as hurtful as those, then it should receive the same punishment.

But look, Kara gave a warning, he was understanding that iamzack might not know the full power of the word -- all went well. No abuse of power here.

By his I didn't mean he ran it entirely. (Although he does seem take on most of the moderating related issues)

[Mad Bomber]

As a minor nitpick:

"Yankee", in American parlance, refers to someone from the Northeastern US (specifically New England and the Mid-Atlantic states). I've known some Southerners to take umbrage if they are called Yanks.

"Redneck" is more pejorative than "Yankee" tho, and I think that should be mentioned, since I see it more commonly.


I will also say that I don't think iamzack deserves a ban. It was a bad joke, yes, and it was in very poor taste, but a ban seems to me like an overreaction.

*sigh* Innocent people have died and a nuclear state may be starting to crumble (see also Swat capitulation), and we're arguing about a bad joke. Methinks our priorities are a bit skewed.  

[Polpolion]

I think it's interesting how 7 people were killed in an ambush and all we can talk about is how people's feelings got hurt when someone said naughty words.

[General Battuta]

I think it's interesting how 7 people were killed in an ambush and all we can talk about is how people's feelings got hurt when someone said naughty words.

Dunbar's number in effect.

[karajorma]

I think it's interesting how 7 people were killed in an ambush and all we can talk about is how people's feelings got hurt when someone said naughty words.

It's amazing that some people think that's all racism is.

I will also say that I don't think iamzack deserves a ban. It was a bad joke, yes, and it was in very poor taste, but a ban seems to me like an overreaction.

I'm starting to think I'm dealing with the hard of thinking here. A ban would have occurred for any further use of the word, after it was made clear that it was a racist term that was not acceptable on this forum.

How many times do I need to say that?

[Polpolion]

I think it's interesting how 7 people were killed in an ambush and all we can talk about is how people's feelings got hurt when someone said naughty words.

It's amazing that some people think that's all racism is.

I didn't say that. In fact, I didn't mention racism at all. So I'll assume that you were not referring to me.

It is a shame that racism exists, but part of what allows it to exist is this whole concept of people thinking "My goodness, some XXXXXs killed a few YYYYYs. How are people so racist?" That whole train of thought is in itself racist. It's certainly not as bad as killing people, but if we ever want to completely rid ourselves of racism and move on, it needs to be turned into "My goodness, some gunmen killed people. How are people so hurtful?"

Dunbar's number in effect.

I read the Wikipedia article on that and did more Google research and I still don't get it.

[tinfoil]

How many times do I need to say that?

No more, I don't think. This "discussion" has taken 5 pages already. You guys need to relax, you're arguing about a hypothetical situation that may arise if iamzack makes another joke in a similarly poor taste, and because of it coming across as either draconian or slow.

My line on the issue is that if people prove themselves to be incurably racist then a ban is in order. It's not a violation of rights, it's common sense. I don't think one lousy joke is ban worthy, and what's more, neither does karajorma.  

[Polpolion]

Frankly, if I were Karajorma, I would've monkeyed iamzack after 8th or so reply, which is when it became clear she was just trying to start an argument, in which she succeeded.

[tinfoil]

It's true that she goes out of her way to cause trouble, but it's not entirely her fault that this got so out of hand.

[karajorma]

Frankly, if I were Karajorma, I would've monkeyed iamzack after 8th or so reply, which is when it became clear she was just trying to start an argument, in which she succeeded.

Yeah. Cause I'm sure that would have been universally agreed with.

[tinfoil]

If it wasn't you could just monkey them too

[Rian]

people's feelings got hurt when someone said naughty words.

This, I believe, is the mistaken understanding of racism that kara referred to. Casual racism is far more than a few “naughty words,” and it has far greater effects than a few hurt feelings. Characterizing it that way is ignorant, disingenuous, or both.

[terran_emperor]

This is a debate over what's racist and what's not that could go on until the the cows come home... Ever watch the south park christmas special from season 1? thats what spung to mind just now when thinking over this discussion.

I thinks the best thing to:
1)say is that words considered racially offensive are not allowed and any repeated diliberate use of them when it is know that offence will be caused will result in the perpertrator being banned
2)lock this thread. As i said this is a debate that can go on forever

BTW kara i've set a date for HLP london part VI March 20th if thats alright.

[Hellstryker]

This is a debate over what's racist and what's not that could go on until the the cows come home... Ever watch the south park christmas special from season 1? thats what spung to mind just now when thinking over this discussion.

I thinks the best thing to:
1)say is that words considered racially offensive are not allowed and any repeated diliberate use of them when it is know that offence will be caused will result in the perpertrator being banned
2)lock this thread. As i said this is a debate that can go on forever

BTW kara i've set a date for HLP london part VI March 20th if thats alright.

Yeah but I'm not arguing over what qualifies as racism, I'm arguing over what constitutes a perma-ban. A one or two day ban would be just fine in my opinion.

[Dilmah G]

This is a debate over what's racist and what's not that could go on until the the cows come home... Ever watch the south park christmas special from season 1? thats what spung to mind just now when thinking over this discussion.

I thinks the best thing to:
1)say is that words considered racially offensive are not allowed and any repeated diliberate use of them when it is know that offence will be caused will result in the perpertrator being banned
2)lock this thread. As i said this is a debate that can go on forever

BTW kara i've set a date for HLP london part VI March 20th if thats alright.

Yeah but I'm not arguing over what qualifies as racism, I'm arguing over what constitutes a perma-ban. A one or two day ban would be just fine in my opinion.

Now that I agree with, I use the word nigger/nigga on a daily basis, but I still see the issue with Paki

Fair enough, it's offensive, but it doesn't constitute a perma-ban on a one-off case. And Kara said with repeated use of the word would result in a perma-ban.

[terran_emperor]

I figure this.

First time offence results in a warning
Second offence results in a ban of two-days to a week
third offence results in month ban.
Any further offences result in a perma-ban.

Would that satisfy you?