[Androgeos Exeunt]

Is getting disabled such a disadvantage for a capital ship? They hardly move anyway, and when they do, its usually into a position where it's poorly positioned engage the enemy.
The Harbinger manages to finish of the SD ph34r (or whatever) just fine...or were you talking about the mission that comes after?

@Icon: Yeah, a few other people do too

Well, in order for a ship to fight properly, it needs to be able to bring most of its functioning gunpoints to bear, as well as to receive damage evenly around the ship so that no weak spots are generated during a battle. If you've tried TSM-69 on Insane, you may get my point.

A tall order for a ship with no propulsion.

[Droid803]

It's not like the AI can handle that very well even if they do move.
I've found that they tend to expose sections that don't have functioning turrets more often that not.

[Charismatic]

We arnt counting shields. Stronger weapons or not, any cap ship with shields, has too great of an advantage.

[terran_emperor]

Well as i said the strongest versions of the Hades and Lucifer are the FS:Port/ST:R versions. So a battle between them could go either way - depending on several things.

*Skill of the respective crews
*Logistical support
*Tactical Support
*Luck

[Commander Zane]

We arnt counting shields. Stronger weapons or not, any cap ship with shields, has too great of an advantage.

Not against other capital ships with beam cannons...
Why doesn't anyone get that? Even if the Lucifer only had a hull integrity of 500 hull and one septillion (24 zeroes) shields, guess what? THE BEAMS WILL KILL IT IN ONE SHOT.

The Lucifer class ship used in Tides of Darkness, the one with what, nine Flux Cannons, THAT is one fearsome beast.

[Snail]

Not against other capital ships with beam cannons...
Why doesn't anyone get that? Even if the Lucifer only had a hull integrity of 500 hull and one septillion (24 zeroes) shields, guess what? THE BEAMS WILL KILL IT IN ONE SHOT.

Citation needed?

[Commander Zane]

[Snail]

There is no canon proof whatsoever that beams would be able to pierce the Lucifer's shields.

[Commander Zane]

Well considering that every time it shows up with anything capable of putting more than a dink in the hull it's invulnerable.
It's Canon that it's 100% invulnerable until the final mission, OR if someone forgets to give it the invulnerable tag on FRED.

Although I shouldn't have singled out the Lucifer based on what Charismatic said, since he said "any cap ship," therefore any capital ship can have absurd amounts of shields, two hull points and get ganked by a AAA beam.

[Droid803]

I based the beam-weakness of the Lucifer in ToD on the gameplay mechanic that AAA beams pierce fighter shields. However, that is just one (noncanon) interpretation. The Lucifer's shielding system could be completely different - it could just as easily make in completely invulnerable.

If you count the Lucifer's shields as making it completely invulnerable, there's little point to this thread now, isn't there? It would trash the Hades, without so much as a scratch.

[Commander Zane]

The gameplay mechanic is that any regular FS2 beam pierces fighter shields, it's just the AAA beams that don't insta-slag you at the same time.
Except maybe the ULTRA-Anti-Fighter Beam.

[Charismatic]

There is no canon proof whatsoever that beams would be able to pierce the Lucifer's shields.

Zactly!

[Commander Zane]

If you think about it the Colossus would then have a chance of being completely, absofreakinglutely, and utterly useless if they spent 20 years to make something to battle ships like the Lucifer and end up having zero effect on it.
Under the concepts of common sense, beams would be able to, otherwise they wouldn't even try it at all.

I certainly wouldn't...

[Mongoose]

If you think about it the Colossus would then have a chance of being completely, absofreakinglutely, and utterly useless if they spent 20 years to make something to battle ships like the Lucifer and end up having zero effect on it.
Under the concepts of common sense, beams would be able to, otherwise they wouldn't even try it at all.

I certainly wouldn't...

That's the same reason I've always held that the Lucifer would have been vulnerable (and most likely more than vulnerable) to beam weaponry, for whatever technobabble reason.  We've all jokingly disparaged Command's intelligence, but the fact remains that the Colossus was a project that took a massive amount of resources and twenty whole years to complete.  If Command intended for it to be a surefire Lucifer-killer, then they would have been as close to certain as possible that its weaponry was capable of doing the job.

[General Battuta]

Yeah, it's kind of...implied canon that the ship would be effective against the Lucifer.

I know, I know, that's not real canon.

[eliex]

Well it was designed as an anti-Lucifer in any case another Lucifer armada appeared again from my interpretation of the cutscene.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Citation needed?

FSPort -> Mission with the Lucifer -> www.freespace2.com -> ~ + 0 -> SSLBeam -> Lucifer -> Target -> ~ + SHIFT + I -> Turn off invulnerability -> Primary fire button

[Snail]

Citation needed?

FSPort -> Mission with the Lucifer -> www.freespace2.com -> ~ + 0 -> SSLBeam -> Lucifer -> Target -> ~ + SHIFT + I -> Turn off invulnerability -> Primary fire button

So cheats are canon now?

[Commander Zane]

Technically if they've been in the game since first release...

[Kie99]

Citation needed?

FSPort -> Mission with the Lucifer -> www.freespace2.com -> ~ + 0 -> SSLBeam -> Lucifer -> Target -> ~ + SHIFT + I -> Turn off invulnerability -> Primary fire button

Freespace Port is not canon.
Fighters having beams is not canon
If you turn off the invulnerability of the Lucifer you can destroy it with a sufficient number of Harbingers.

HTH