[General Battuta]

Again, those people represent a minority of the population.

I think you're arguing against some implicit point you think I'm making. All I'm pointing out is that even if guns were easy to get most people wouldn't need or want them.

[Warlock]

Wether or not "most" people wouldn't need or want them (which is your opinion of course) that minority still has to be represented when concidering an outright ban of firearms. Or out right ban of anything else for that matter.

Majority may rule but the minority does have the right to argue their point.

Again my post before was citing examples of firearms useage that wasn't to commit a crime or protect against a crime,....since that seems to be the sole reasons discussed in this debate. But if you'd rather simply handwave those away, that's up to you

[Inquisitor]

And I agree with Warlock

Its nice when we all get along

That's actually a good counter (in my opinion) to some of the earlier rejecting of rights. Just because its not a majority is no reason to deny a right.

Defending against a crime is a red herring. Concentrate on the other legit reasons to own these things, then ask how can you fairly allow them. If some people do have a need, how do you judge what groups are denied without also getting into something that ends up arbitrarily discriminatory?

The 20/20 videos were interesting, by the way, did anyone watch them?

[Warlock]

A few loopholes there. Murders per country wouldn't be a true gauge since the US has a fairly large population compared to most other countries. It also has a much better media and general information tracking that many, which is both good and bad at times.

Now if the list were murders with firearms by 100,000 or somesuch, it would be a bit of a better means to guage the US vs other smaller countries.

Personally I still hold much doubt as to the US being one of the most dangerous countries to live. I'd more likely to believe certain countries in the middle east, africa, the smaller nations that sprang up out of the USSR, are a bit more dangerous. But again it's a personal opinion and I'm really not concerned enough to look into it (read as: lazy today)

[The E]

Just check rapes. USA is first place. Of course many of the rape stories were surely made up by bad girls and feminists telling lies to police officers to try and get men they hate in trouble.

You really have a knack for saying things that are primo grade A flamefuel, you know that? Rape is one of those crimes which, unlike murder or theft, are shameful to admit to for the victim. Noone likes to admit they have been powerless, so there's a large amount of rapes that go unpunished. the fact that, in the US, women are actually able to go to the police and get those bastards convicted, is a good thing IMHO. There may be some people who did what you've described, but I guess that those cases are by far in the minority.

In my experience, when making statements like the above, it is usually advisable to either back them up with hard data, or encapsulate them using things like "In my opinion..", "I believe" or "I suspect". Takes the sting off a bit. Speaking ex cathedra, as you are fond of doing, incites disagreement not only because of what you said, but also because of the way you said it.

[General Battuta]

Don't want to be a huge jerk, but if I were in the same room as you, High Max, I'd hit you for saying that.

Thank goodness there are people like The E around. Bastions of sense.

[Scotty]

If he keeps making bull**** comments like that, I'm just gonna walk away.

Most of the American population, however, lives in cities or suburbs, where hunting and target shooting are uncommon and impractical, and wandering about the wilderness isn't likely to happen.

Well, good to see that you're content to never leave a city  .

Again, those people represent a minority of the population.

Doesn't really matter.  It's still a portion.  Anyway, a minority could be only 149 million out of 300 million people.

Maybe this topic can reach 100 pages.

If you stop posting flamebait like the rape statement.

That just proves what I felt all along about USA being one of the most dangerous countries to live in worldwide.

Pretty damn subjective truth there.

And I agree with Warlock

Its nice when we all get along

 

Defending against a crime is a red herring.

But it still happens, you can't discount the minority.

Murders per country wouldn't be a true gauge

Who wants to be who'd bet in the top ten  .

EDIT: Fixed a spelling error.

[Hellstryker]

Captain Oblivious

[General Battuta]

Most of the American population, however, lives in cities or suburbs, where hunting and target shooting are uncommon and impractical, and wandering about the wilderness isn't likely to happen.

Well, good to see that you're content to never leave a city  .

Don't be a jerk. It's incredibly presumptuous of you to think that I'd only mention living in cities or suburbs if I lived in a city or suburb.

I live (lived) in a rural area in a state without a single real city. There were routinely bears, dear, and coyotes in my backyard and the hunting seasons are bountiful. My family owns firearms. We don't need them.

I don't think people going on vacation to the country are going to bring firearms anyway.

Again, those people represent a minority of the population.

Doesn't really matter.  It's still a portion.  Anyway, a minority could be only 149 million out of 300 million people.

You need to read the context of these quotes. I'm not constantly addressing you, Scotty. These remarks were aimed at Androgeos Exeunt and his idea that America was a big wilderness where everybody needed guns to stay alive.

[Inquisitor]

I was unable to find any statistics on firearms preventing crime.

[The E]

Many women DO like to get men into trouble in countries like usa and ones who have many feminists because in those countries, they are not traditional much and they want to have more rights than men and want power and in many ways, they already do when it comes to the law favoring them.

You should really move to a fine, traditional country like Iran. None of that wishy-washy, liberal, disgusting equal rights stuff. Please cite one law that favors women for anything, without exception.

 

I will say it all I want and it feels good to say it and helps release anger because I know how people are. I would be scared to have a woman president for that reason.

Maybe. But you should realize that this isn't the right place for you to let off steam. Go hone your exceptional physique some more, hopefully, that'll lead you to the ideal of "mens sana in corpore sano".

 

Flame me all you want.

No. As hard as it may be to believe for you, but most people here just wish to have a flame-free conversation about things.

 

I'm not scared. I'll just say it again and again. I don't have to back it up and I'm sure it isn't a small minority.

Actually, yes, you do. You know why? Because when you go on and on about things you have no knowledge off, like, for example, women being raped, noone is going to take you serious when it comes to things where you may have some expertise.

 

You shouldn't be so trusting thinking it is a small minority. I may not like to fight, but if someone tries a move on me like hitting me, I would do something and I might not show mercy. Like I said, if you want so-called evidence, then look for it yourself for once.

I did. I looked for evidence supporting your position. I didn't find much. What I did find, however, were sites like this, which you undoubtedly will decry as biased, but which nonetheless come off as more reasonable than your ranting.

You have previously stated that you consider yourself to be a misanthrope. Congratulations, you may now add "misogynist" to the list of your character attributes.

EDIT: Ooops, did I flame you, despite my saying that I won't? My bad. But your writing style, not to mention the things that you do write, constitute my own, personal berserk button.

[General Battuta]

Don't want to be a huge jerk, but if I were in the same room as you, High Max, I'd hit you for saying that.

Thank goodness there are people like The E around. Bastions of sense.

Many women DO like to get men into trouble in countries like usa and ones who have many feminists because in those countries, they are not traditional much and they want to have more rights than men and want power and in many ways, they already do when it comes to the law favoring them. I will say it all I want and it feels good to say it and helps release anger because I know how people are. I would be scared to have a woman president for that reason. Flame me all you want. I'm not scared. I'll just say it again and again. I don't have to back it up and I'm sure it isn't a small minority. You shouldn't be so trusting thinking it is a small minority. I may not like to fight, but if someone tries a move on me like hitting me, I would do something and I might not show mercy. Like I said, if you want so-called evidence, then look for it yourself for once. I'm not much for small talk. You should all know that by now. I will flat out tell you how I feel.

Reported to mods as hate speech under the ol' "substitute 'black person' for 'woman' and see if it's still tolerable" rule. It isn't.

[Inquisitor]

Creepy. 

[Scotty]

*Raises hand feebly*

Umm, I think I called myself a misanthrope, not him, nor did he say it.

Still, Max, get over it.  Find legit statistics and quit coming in with ranty bull****, it takes all the fun out of arguing.

Back to guns! 

[swashmebuckle]

Back to guns! 

Indeed.  So I watched some of the 20/20 videos, and while the caliber (ba-dum!) of journalism on display was barely better than Fox News, I though the study they did with the students (in spite of the tiny sample size) and the police instructor's insights were very interesting in regards to the concealed weapons for self-defense argument.  I'd be curious to learn what this thread's moderates and radicals on both sides would think of a gun control scheme like this:

1. All firearms and ammo must be registered to their owners and tagged in the manners described above for traceability, etc.

2. If you want to carry a concealed weapon for your job or whatever, you need to participate in (and pay for) monthly training with local law enforcement agencies similar to what cops do, during which you are also evaluated for your psychological well being.  If the Police psychologist determines that you think you are the Antichrist and need to save everyone from yourself by sending them all to heaven, officer Bob takes your gun away and you get referred to a nice civilian shrink.

3. Sport shooters, outdoor enthusiasts, etc. can apply for a less demanding license which is limited to bolt action rifles, breech loading shotguns, and other stuff I can't think of right now that isn't as well suited to Rambo style rampages.

Decent damage control?  Not strong enough?  Cold dead fingers?  You decide.  Based on the one-sided evidence we provide.  And then in case you didn't get it, we flat out tell you what to think--

On the next, Crappy News Editorial Show (not affiliated with the preceding crappy TV movie about the same subject).

Edit: spelled breech like beach.
Edit 2: And by breech loading I meant break action.  D'oh.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Captain Oblivious

Aaaaand ... you were going somewhere with this?

[Inquisitor]

So I watched some of the 20/20 videos, and while the caliber (ba-dum!) of journalism on display was barely better than Fox News

I tend to agree, though the classroom assault scenarios were interesting, so were the results of the gun show segment.

[Inquisitor]

Liberal Gun owners:

http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/beliefs.html

[Scotty]

  Dear God, they do exist!

[General Battuta]

Dear God, they do exist!

As I said in my post, my family owns firearms.

I'm not exactly liberal, nor is the family, but close enough.