[karajorma]

and guess what, that 0.01% of the population already has a gun, and won't return it just because they are asked nicely to do so.

if we were as violent and murder happy as is being suggested, we would already have burned to the ground long ago.

Are you seriously claiming that every potential psychopath in the country already has a gun? And that doesn't worry you?


How many times have you heard of people assaulting other people because they cut them up in traffic or took their parking spot. What do you think would happen if all those people had a gun on them at the time?

[Kosh]

Funny thing about this country (USA) is you don't have the freedom to drive and ride in a vehicle without a seat belt (at least here in Oregon) and they have strict rules about what you can burn or certain other things on your own property, yet some of the bigger things like being sexually crazy and fighting in bars

1.) Seat belt laws are pretty much universal (except in New Hampshire).
2.) The burning rules was to reduce overall air pollution. If we let everyone burn everything at anytime, that adds up and hurts our air quality. I used to enjoy our bright blue skies, what about you?
3.) Fighting in bars is hardly considered a good thing and you can get into trouble for it if someone calls the cops, but I don't see how this is different from anywhere else in the world.
4.) So what you're saying with that sexually crazy remark is that we should legislate morality? Slippery slope to a new Talibanistan.

And yeah, I lived almost my whole life in Oregon. Great state.

[Mika]

Sorry for being OT, but considering the amount of **** teachers need to digest in their jobs I'd rather not give'em guns

  And here I thought it would be a good reason to give them guns! 

EDIT: Oh, I wouldn't use quarterstaff @home. Restricted amount of space to fling it you see. Sabre or a scimitar would be better. I'm actually planning to hang one close to the front door. Along with the 1000 Watt flashlight, of course. Maybe I could also change the weak 40 W lamp outdoors to something more sparky. Like a 300 W Cermax. Directed right in the eye. The bad thing is that I probably would never use it! 

Mika

[Mika]

On a more serious note, it is the ease at which people can be killed with firearms that matters. Bombs and rest of that kind of stuff requires more time, knowledge and skill.

We also have pretty good number of guns per capita, but quite many of us are taught to respect the authority and inform authorities of possible problems. So even if we think that police handles it for us, it hasn't generated so huge problem with firearms here. Though the number of incidents is rising. This has something to do with people obtaining firearms later on their life and not using them on hunting. And with organised crime, though that situation is lot worse in Sweden.

Mika

[NGTM-1R]

How many times have you heard of people assaulting other people because they cut them up in traffic or took their parking spot. What do you think would happen if all those people had a gun on them at the time?

In my experience you only hear about when they did have a gun on them.

[Bobboau]

Are you seriously claiming that every potential psychopath in the country already has a gun? And that doesn't worry you?


How many times have you heard of people assaulting other people because they cut them up in traffic or took their parking spot. What do you think would happen if all those people had a gun on them at the time?

most people who want a gun get one, especially the people who should not have one, there is not anarchy, I can walk down the street without getting shot, this is the state of things now. I really REALLY doubt that people are going to just start shooting each other anymore than I think they will just start stabbing each other, simply because of the fact that they do it don't now.

[karajorma]

You give out more guns and people who don't currently have them are going to start wanting them. Especially if you're espousing the theory that anyone who doesn't carry one is a coward.

How many times have you heard of people assaulting other people because they cut them up in traffic or took their parking spot. What do you think would happen if all those people had a gun on them at the time?

In my experience you only hear about when they did have a gun on them.

Can't believe I'm saying this but you need to watch more Judge Judy.

But yeah. You only hear about it when one of them has a gun. Cause otherwise it's a minor assault rather than a homicide.

[Bobboau]

the point was anyone unwilling to defend themselves, guns are just one (and in the opinion of the guy who wrote that article, the best) way to do that.

and who is giving out guns? I'm certainly not advocating forcing a gun into everyone's hand, or giving them out freely, I'm just opposed to most of the anti-gun laws of the last half century, just like I'm opposed to the anti-drug laws, and laws which curtail free speech, or privacy. the only one of those I personally use a lot is speech, I don't own a gun, I don't smoke or drink, and I'm fairly public about everything I do. you want a order and peace, I want a liberty and freedom, after a certain point you have to pick one over the other.

[IceFire]

I'm kind of surprised that we have "more" guns here in Canada.  Guns are strictly controlled and in the urban areas its sort of shocking to see one.  Its weird to me when I'm in a sporting store in the US and I see a whole area devoted to various kinds of firearms.  We don't have that here.

[karajorma]

you want a order and peace, I want a liberty and freedom, after a certain point you have to pick one over the other.

Nice try but if you want to argue about liberty I have to ask where you draw the line? Can I mount flame-throwers on my car to defend against car jackers for instance?

[The E]

Or Lasers to keep the squirrels away?

[Bobboau]

sure, though if you use them on someone not attacking you you're going to jail.

[The E]

Which will be cold comfort for the victims. Do you really think that giving people who are stressed out from work and suffering from road rage access to weapons is a good idea? Cars are dangerous enough as is, you don't need to add weapons to the mix.

[Bobboau]

weapons are already in the mix.

[castor]

Sorry for being OT, but considering the amount of **** teachers need to digest in their jobs I'd rather not give'em guns

And here I thought it would be a good reason to give them guns! 

Hah! But that portrays exactly the line of thought here. The one that advocates a society implementing systemic fear as the means of keeping people from doing stupid things.
Well it might work, but personally I don't like the idea. Its like submitting to the "fact" that no real progress is possible on this area - we can only attempt to cap the damage that is inevitable. And once the atmosphere of fear is in place, there is no need or motivation for talks anymore - only silent regression thereafter.

[Polpolion]

People are over-estimating the American public's tendency of gun violence. People who don't live in America, no less. But still, I'm glad some people know that everyone in America is a raving lunatic, ready to have a show-down with anyone that ticks them off, even if they do live on the other side of oceans.

I thought that all the people I know personally wouldn't just shoot people, but hell, I've only lived around these guys for 16 years. If people who live thousands of miles away say otherwise, then who am I to question them?

EDIT: I would have thought the best way to stop crime is to persuade people against doing these things, instead of leaving them with the desire but not the means, but hey, that's not practical. Let's just take everything away that they can possible commit a crime with.

[karajorma]

Fine. How do you explain the huge discrepancy between the American homicide rate and pretty much everywhere else in the West?

Oh wait. I've asked this one before and basically got the answer that it's due to having more blacks, Hispanics and other ethnicities than other countries.  

[Flipside]

Kind of odd considering that's why, according to the far right, the UK is becoming a 'Third World Country', because of all its non-white, non-Christians.

As for guns, the whole reason the Police was instated in the first place to stop Anarchy from roaming the streets, this guy might think he's promoting self-responsibility, but what his article is actually suggesting is Anarchy, no law but the law you choose to make, and if they try to arrest you for it, well, your freedom is at stake, time to reach for that Semi again.

The Police don't exist because people are lazy, the Police exist because if they didn't, it'd be sheer chaos out there, with a million self-centric versions of 'Right and Wrong'.

[Nuclear1]

EDIT: I would have thought the best way to stop crime is to persuade people against doing these things, instead of leaving them with the desire but not the means, but hey, that's not practical. Let's just take everything away that they can possible commit a crime with.

Actually, I was thinking getting rid of the root causes of crime, poverty, a prohibitively expensive health care system, and a failing educational system, rather than simply arming everyone as an end-all to the problem.  Guns for self-defense is simply a bandage...not really treating the problem.

I'm not saying Americans are prone to gun violence necessarily, but we do live in a gun culture, and plenty of people do live in a reality created by Hollywood.  When it comes down to dealing with a mad rampaging gunman, do you really think 20 year old blond Marissa or 76 year old Esther are going to be able to handle a gun the right way?  

Also, with regards to school shootings:  most schools have police officers in them for a reason.  Students and teachers don't need to come to school packing weapons.  And what would happen if we had another Columbine or Virginia Tech, and some other student with a gun tried to be a hero?  What would happen if some truly sick mind bent on killing people saw someone trying to resist?  It would only make it worse.

Like I said, deal with the problems at their source.  Guns aren't always the answer.

[maje]

"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State."

I agree with banning guns.  Surely nothing evil can possibly come from this.