Author Topic: General normal map&modelling thread  (Read 9785 times)

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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Cant get bump map into PCS2 (more or less solved, I now know how to normal map)
I am using extracted core files.. not vp's but I was looking for any shader files and In this old wing commander release I can't find anything it looks like it didn't use any shader except engine shader... BTW. I rename this ZuperShader to a_Zupershader but engine is still really slow...

Ah yeah, you wouldn't have any if you're doing this with WCS. It doesn't have shaders to begin with, so the shader VP file will work quite fine...

Perhaps you're just being too optimistic about your hardware capabilities?

What's your GPU and driver version? I "can" see the normal maps on a GeForce 6600 on my older PC, but the frame rates are like 20 at best with ships on screen. 7600GT deals with them fine, and my current GeForce 8800GT even better.
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Offline jacek

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Re: Cant get bump map into PCS2 (more or less solved, I now know how to normal map)
I have GeForce Go 7150m

It looks like I was too optimistic.. But in my opinion in dual core processor and geforce series 7 this kind of shader should run with better frame rate than 20..
BTW. Again thanks for help  :)

 

Offline The E

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Re: Cant get bump map into PCS2 (more or less solved, I now know how to normal map)
No, not really. CPUs, even modern ones, are not very good at doing the stuff shader processors in GPUs can do. (There are a few examples in the DirectX SDK where you can select to use the "reference model" that uses a pure software renderer, including the shader code. Good Luck getting a playable framerate with those.)
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Cant get bump map into PCS2 (more or less solved, I now know how to normal map)
I have GeForce Go 7150m

It looks like I was too optimistic.. But in my opinion in dual core processor and geforce series 7 this kind of shader should run with better frame rate than 20..
BTW. Again thanks for help  :)


It's more about the amount of memory and it's bandwidth and amount of processing units on the GPU core that defines these things, not the numbers. Even if it's a 7 series GPU, it's a low end mobile version and likely steals system ram for all the huge textures in mediaVP's. Low end GPU's also have less units to calculate stuff like shaders, clock speeds are lower, and so forth. I'm not surprised that a 7150m ends up doing 20 FPS, but that's assuming this value is when there's some ships in view. Empty space should go up to VSync frequency (usually 60 FPS), so if the absolute maximum is 20 FPS then something might be more deeply wrong (tried removing the MV_Advanced.vp yet?)

My 7600 GT 256MB usually kept the game above 30 FPS mark, but multiple capital ships and especially particle effects on-screen tended to lower it to twenties, below ten at worst.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline jacek

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Re: Cant get bump map into PCS2 (more or less solved, I now know how to normal map)
This frame rate I have when I have some ships in view and I know that  GeForce Go 7150m isn't powerfull but difference between this new shader and old one which using WCSaga is only normal maps.. but in frame rate are very very big difference. In comercial games time is very important so usually if somebody would like nice game must buy new computer but in opensource games time isn't very important and I think that shaders should be more optimising.. I don't say this because I would like to tick off somebody but It is very nice when You may run something on Your computer and it looks beautifull and run fast. BTW. when I create new model I try to make it nice and keep polycount low it takes me of course some more time but I think it's important

 

Offline Zacam

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Re: Cant get bump map into PCS2 (more or less solved, I now know how to normal map)
The nice thing about the shaders is that anybody can write their own.

And given that I don't recall WCS having any (at this time, could be wrong) shader worthy assets (normal maps) you can use a 3.6.10 build with -no_glsl and not miss out on anything eyecandy wise.

If, even with -no_glsl on, you _still_ have low frame rates, there may be other issues at hand.

The 7150 has a lot of nice qualities, but complex shadows and lighting are the quickest way to turn a game unplayable on an IGP. And while the FSO engine does not have shadows, the lighting could be considered complex in terms of how an IGP handles it.

It is important to note that 7100 series does not support technologies such as: high dynamic range rendering (HDR) and UltraShadow II as well. As far as I can determine it has any where from 2-4 Vertex and/or Pixel Shaders, which is not a lot of band on an already limited bus.

If that mobile GPU was anything higher than a dedicated IGP/MCP, then your assessment of Dual Core and GeForce 7 series would be correct. However, the 7150 actually classes closer to the GeForce 6 series functions with production refinements mostly.

Mobility solutions can almost never be classed in the same category as their desktop counterparts.
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Cant get bump map into PCS2 (more or less solved, I now know how to normal map)
Even with the tutorials, its pretty hard to make actual good looking textures with normal maps on em. The HTL models are real works of art.
I more or less somewhat completed my first fighter model now though.

The 'normal map' (if you can even call it that much) is just a simple clouds render height map in photoshop which has been through crazy bump. The diffuse map isn't exactly a work of art either. Spend a lot of time figuring out how to work with the uwv unwrap (it puts bits and parts all over, with no logic. Was a pain just to figure out what goes where). The mesh is around 580 or so polygon's.
Feedback is very welcome.

For my first spaceship model i'm somewhat pleased. But I really wish to improve from here...
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Offline Water

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Re: General normal map&modelling thread
The tile type pattern suits larger ships. Use either motion blur to streak (or smudge)

The thing you are looking for is design. Grab the image and paint on it - DO NOT try to be careful and tidy, you want ideas. Some of them will look great, others need erasing  ;)  Once you have finished you will need to decide which texture bits belong on the the normal rather than the diffuse map. It can also give extra ideas to add to the mesh.

Don't worry if the first attempts look bad. Also the dodge/burn tool can be used to break up monotone areas into larger type panels.

Extra tools are useful. Blender has a paint on model mode that can help with the photoshop layout. If that's not an option, then colouring the polys and baking that out as a texture map would be a good first step to locate where everything is.


 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General normal map&modelling thread
After reading your post I was impressed, just a few lines, stripes and color makes such an improvement! So, I went to work.


Surely it's still not as pretty as any of the HTL models but personally, i'm happy.


Thanks Water for the feedback, it really helped me progress!
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Water

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Re: General normal map&modelling thread
No problem, the first attempt is always hard.

 
Re: General normal map&modelling thread
For real good normal maps, you practically have to create your own base texture.  Precreated texture panels just don't give good results.
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Offline Spoon

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Re: General normal map&modelling thread
i'm planning on a large mod/campaign and i'm doing everything on my own. So i'll allow myself some degree of non perfection. If not i'll be forever stuck on details and i'll never get anywhere...
Creating a base texture with fancy panels by myself will probably take me an other day with mediocre results...
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them