[The E]

In somewhat related news, Greg Bear has been hired to write Halo prequel novels? This could be interesting....

[Pred the Penguin]

More? Still waiting for the next, but that's good news. ^_^

[General Battuta]

Oddly, Battletech fans seem to hate Stackpole. Most of the criticism is focused on his battles and his characters, sometimes derisively called the 'SuperFriends'.

I didn't start to hate Victor until he threw the Federated Commonwealth in the wastebasket and effectively betrayed a lot of people who fought for him, and probably betrayed a lot of other people considering his younger sister has the second greatest amount of cuplability for this situation after Katherine. I do think, however, he wasn't nearly as interesting a character as Hohiro Kurita and Shin Yodama.

Much of why people dislike Stackpole was the fact that, either by chance or choice, he ended up getting most of the major storyline novels. (Offhand, I think only the Twilight of the Clans novels dealing with the invasion of Huntress were in the category of "world-changing" and not his.) The resulting improved continuity was, to my mind, worth it.

As to why people rag on Stackpole's battles...I'm not sure. Unlike the rest of the authors, Stackpole captured the feel of the tabletop game exceptional well. (This is because he actually gamed many of the smaller actions. There are two such instances in Dire Covenant alone; you can probably pick them out.) The only person I know of who writes 'Mech-to-'Mech combat better is Dave Wainio.

Speaking of which. The Warders series is for those who want to read novel-quality work. The Urban Legends stuff? Palerider's UrbanMech Brigade LIVES!

I also recommend Silence of the Urbies and The Good, The Bad, and The Urbie. Erratic_Cheese must be read to be believed. Whether his writing is wtfhilaritygenius or the wrong end of mind enema is up to you. (Personally, I'm not sure those are mutually exclusive.)

MaddMaxx wrote a series of stories based on MechCommander 1, and a few others. Of particular interest is probably The Confederate, which is from a tanker's point of view rather than a MechWarrior's.

Last and most certainly not least: New World Order by The Wobbly Guy. When you're done with that, start on Seekers In Shadow, and spam his e-mail to finish it.

I think people got thrown off by the number of exploding fusion engines in Stackpole's work -- something comparatively rare in actual Battletech.

[Snail]

Random question about 2001: A Space Odyssey.


Why would monkey-humans evolve to have hands and feet and all this ergonomic stuff if they weren't using it to their advantage? If they were all just dying out anyway how would this new species have survived through natural selection? I mean, if they had to be told that they could pick things up with their hands, why would they evolve that way in the first place...?

[Angelus]

I think people got thrown off by the number of exploding fusion engines in Stackpole's work -- something comparatively rare in actual Battletech.

True, and if i take a look at Mechwarrior 4 - Vengeance, it seems M$ has a soft spot for him.
The Warrior trilogy is, imo, his best work in the BT universe.

Loren Coleman is also a good writer, his "Capellan Solution" books are amongst my favorite BT books.

[Scotty]

I think people got thrown off by the number of exploding fusion engines in Stackpole's work -- something comparatively rare in actual Battletech.

Depends on the pilot's style, really.  In the Stackpole novels I've read, most of the 'Mech battles are between heavyweights, which need something rather, um, explosive to put it down hard enough.  Besides, if you play MechCommander 2, the style you use in command relates to how many really explode.  Some people go for heavy stuff on heavy 'Mechs and consequently, fusion engines go boom.  Others go light, and salvageable 'Mechs litter the battlefield.

[The E]

Which isn't true to the original tabletop game the novels are based on. In fact, standing near to an exploding 'Mech wouldn't scratch your paint there. It was only after the Stackpole novels became popular that such a rule was added, and even then only as a so called Layer 3 rule, meaning that it was essentially a house rule that would never be used in any official tournament. (In terms of realism, fusion reactors do not explode violently. They just tend to sizzle out rather than exploding messily.)

[Scotty]

Yeah, but how interesting would that be? 

Besides, it makes sense that a hot fusion reactor would detonate rather violently if the containment thingy is breached.  The release of untold billions of joules of energy = ouch.

[The E]

Besides, it makes sense that a hot fusion reactor would detonate rather violently if the containment thingy is breached.  The release of untold billions of joules of energy = ouch.

Granted, Mechs exploding are better than Mechs simply falling down.
However, if a fusion reactor's containment fails, the first thing that the plasma hits is the relatively cool reactor hull. Destroying that eats up a lot of the thermal energy that fusion plasma is known for. Same goes for a hit that manages to penetrate the reactor hull, if the plasma is going to vent, it still spends a lot of energy on the 'Mech its venting from. Now, your usual Mech carries several tons of explosives around with it, but even if that were to explode all at once, it wouldn't account for the damage that you get in Stackpoles' novels or the PC games. It's simply one of those things where the Rule of Cool was used to justify an exception to BattleTech's generally realistic atmosphere.

[Scotty]

Cooking off ammo will blow off limbs.  Exploding reactor, which then cooks of all ammo, in addtion to the enormous energy realeased from a failing fusion reactor.

[General Battuta]

Yeah, but how interesting would that be? 

Besides, it makes sense that a hot fusion reactor would detonate rather violently if the containment thingy is breached.  The release of untold billions of joules of energy = ouch.

No, it doesn't make sense. You can go over to the Classic Battletech forums and post a thread about this if you want a lengthy explanation. CBT establishes that the only way a 'Mech is rendered totally unsalvageable (i.e. engine destroyed, presumably by cataclysmic detonation) is if its center torso internals are totally destroyed by an area saturation artillery attack.

CBT fusion engines are extremely safe. Mike Miller, materials engineer on the CBT writing staff, can give you a better explanation as to why.

Cooking off ammo will blow off limbs.  Exploding reactor, which then cooks of all ammo, in addtion to the enormous energy realeased from a failing fusion reactor.

Again, failing fusion reactors don't release enormous amounts of energy. Google-Fu provides some basic evidence. Nor have exploding reactors ever done any damage in the Battletech universe.

The reason is that the fusion reaction ends very rapidly once containment is breached. What little plasma escapes will cool off very fast. Fusion reactors are, unfortunately, rather safe.

[The E]

I'm feeling ignored.....

Anyway, a quick look in my gaming library reveals that the rules that were made to allow those explosions to happen in the boardgame are extremely conservative. And even the novels adhered to it relatively close. (Basically, in order to explode, an engine has to sustain two or more critical hits in the same round and the controlling player has to roll a 12 on 2d6. And to repeat myself, these rules are Level 3, meaning that they are essentially non-canon.)

[NGTM-1R]

Which isn't true to the original tabletop game the novels are based on. In fact, standing near to an exploding 'Mech wouldn't scratch your paint there. It was only after the Stackpole novels became popular that such a rule was added, and even then only as a so called Layer 3 rule, meaning that it was essentially a house rule that would never be used in any official tournament.

See, there's a problem with that. And that problem is that Stackpole never actually described a fusion reactor going off the deep end as dangerous to anyone else.  It can do catastrophic damage to the 'Mech that just lost containment, but it's not a threat to other 'Mechs nearby (even ones that were engaged in hand-to-hand combat with the 'Mech that lost containment; see the Battle of Luthien; Shin Yodama's Phoenix Hawk rammed a Vulture, which lost containment, and the Phoenix Hawk was untouched). This makes a degree of sense; 'Mech reactors are described usually as tokamak, or at least implied. The operating temperature of a reactor is going to be many times higher than that of a PPC strike, which is the closest functional equivalent. (Recall too that even 12.7mm machinegun fire can damage a Battletech containment vessel.) There are emergency shutdowns and safeguards; dampeners and at least one novel describes an emergency shutdown as including blow-off panels on the 'Mech's back that vent the plasma. If, however, all those fail, the reactor is going to result in some fairly impressive pyrotechnics...albeit ones that will be confined within the 'Mech or close to it.

This is exactly how Stackpole describes such things.

[General Battuta]

But the thing is that 'Mech engines don't usually (or really ever) lose containment -- they shut down when damaged.

The novelists play a bit loose with this, Stackpole in particular. Or at least that's the allegation from the die-hards.

[The E]

See, there's a problem with that. And that problem is that Stackpole never actually described a fusion reactor going off the deep end as dangerous to anyone else.  It can do catastrophic damage to the 'Mech that just lost containment, but it's not a threat to other 'Mechs nearby (even ones that were engaged in hand-to-hand combat with the 'Mech that lost containment; see the Battle of Luthien; Shin Yodama's Phoenix Hawk rammed a Vulture, which lost containment, and the Phoenix Hawk was untouched). This makes a degree of sense; 'Mech reactors are described usually as tokamak, or at least implied. The operating temperature of a reactor is going to be many times higher than that of a PPC strike, which is the closest functional equivalent. (Recall too that even 12.7mm machinegun fire can damage a Battletech containment vessel.) There are emergency shutdowns and safeguards; dampeners and at least one novel describes an emergency shutdown as including blow-off panels on the 'Mech's back that vent the plasma. If, however, all those fail, the reactor is going to result in some fairly impressive pyrotechnics...albeit ones that will be confined within the 'Mech or close to it.

This is exactly how Stackpole describes such things.

Agreed. If my comments led you to believe otherwise, I apologize. (And I do remember much ranting about Stackpole and 'Mechs exploding needlessly back when I first started reading those books. God, is that really 15 years ago?) But there is some fun to be had in the Mechwarrior RPG, especially when the first thing that tips the players off that something fishy is going on when the enemy 'Mechs start exploding....)

And I think that the one thing that ticked the hardcore people off more than anything was Kai Allard-Liao using his 'Mechs explosion to trigger an even bigger boom in one novel (Natural Selection, IIRC).

[Scotty]

And I think that the one thing that ticked the hardcore people off more than anything was Kai Allard-Liao using his 'Mechs explosion to trigger an even bigger boom in one novel (Natural Selection, IIRC).

Also mentioned in Bloodname of the Jade Pheonix trilogy.

[General Battuta]

And I think that the one thing that ticked the hardcore people off more than anything was Kai Allard-Liao using his 'Mechs explosion to trigger an even bigger boom in one novel (Natural Selection, IIRC).

Also mentioned in Bloodname of the Jade Pheonix trilogy.

Yeah. That was really irritating.

If Mechs were portable bombs they'd be used that way tactically against other 'Mechs.

Worse yet, Kai did it by yanking some wires in the cockpit.

[Topgun]

The Rights of Man
by Thomas Paine

^You can download it at the link^
everyone should read at least some of it, it's very enlightening.

[Rick James]

Currently Reading "Small Favor" by Jim Butcher. Not his greatest, but still good.

[maje]

The Book of Numbers from the New American Bible: Official Catholic Bible, Red Letter Edition.

I may switch over to the Hebrew-English Tanakh, though as I have an interest in reading the Holy Books besides the native language.

Asides from that I have the Complete Works of Flavius Josephus that I plan on tackling.

After having read those, I might try out the King James version, or once again attempt to read the Qu'ran.