[Mobius]

I played through the Main FreeSpace 2 Campaign a few days ago and noticed many differences between it and most custom made campaigns. Many community members claim that the levels reached by custom campaigns are comparable to, if not higher than, the ones of the original product.

I now believe that custom campaign designers may learn a lot. I'm posting this as a mea culpa, meaning that I'm likely to change my FREDding style as well....

(please note that I may wikify this in the near future)


Wing waves - was superior

In the main campaign, multiple waves are extremely rare. That doesn't happen in custom campaigns, where the player is likely to face Cancer 26, Scorpio 18, Libra 30, etc. etc. during major engagements.

's solution is quite notable, IMO. Custom campaigns may use a progressive deployment of forces instead of waved wings whose only purpose is making a mission last longer.

2 GTB Medusa ---> 3 GTB Zeus

3 GTB Ursa ---> 5 GTB Boanerges

3 GTF Hercules ---> 5 GTF Loki

That gives the impression of a progressive deployment of forces. Taking down newer wings becomes harder, as well. More in general, preferred to use different wings if the ship limit allowed them to do so.

There's no need to set up multiple waves if the number of ships in FRED is, let's say, 20.


Bomber wings' loadout - was superior

In Feint! Parry! Riposte! Zeta and Iota wings launch swarm missiles instead of torpedoes.

Also, throughout the campaign the default payloads bombers could rely on were more balanced that their counterparts seen in most custom-made campaigns. FREDders tend to issue full banks of Helios, Cyclops and other torpedoes.


Beam/turret free all sprees - was superior

Self explanatory. Warships featured in custom campaigns tend to use all their firepower, even if that means(speaking under a Universe point of view) certain overloads(and no, the Colossus may not be the only example). found a plausible way to have longer warship battles. The same battles would be resolved by one or more BGreen/TerSlash shots in custom campaigns.

In other words, we don't know if an Orion firing all of its BGreens is plausible under a Universe point of view - the energy required such a "basic" action may be high.


Characters - fans are superior

As we are all aware of, there's poor characterization in the main FreeSpace campaigns. We have a few characters here and there, but they're not enough.

Please note that characters are used in various ways, many of which don't match the FreeSpace standards. While guardianed characters are ok, invulnerable ones using callsigns.

Characters proved to be very important in custom campaigns and exploited the weaknesses of FreeSpace's poor characterization system. Both in character-driven campaigns and more classic ones, characters are extremely useful for storytelling purposes: they're used to say things that Command and warship COs would never say for several reasons.


Cutscenes(FRED), take off and landing sequences - fans are superior

I read somewhere that guys didn't like take off and landing sequences and therefore they did not make use of such sequences in the games, but I can claim that this turned out to be a bad choice. FreeSpace now looks a bit outdated also because of the total lack of this kind of sequences in the main games.

Fortunately, however, the SCP has added the tools needed to create those sequences and FREDders who're taking advantage of them are doing a very nice work.


Weapons-related choices - was superior

This part is partially connected to "Beam/turret free all sprees" and "Bomber wings' loadout". Unlike what we see in custom campaigns, there's more balance in : weapons are oftentimes downgraded and kills don't tend to be so easy.

In custom campaigns, Tornadoes, Trebuchets and comparable weapons usually are common enough to break balance.

[karajorma]

I've got to disagree with you about launching and landing cutscenes. were correct. They're frequently nothing but eye candy that spoil the immersion of the game after you've seen them more than once.

Wing Commander for instance pisses me off no end with all the cutscenes I have to wade through just to replay a mission (Although the worst offender for this was Starlancer).

[Mobius]

Well, Wing Commander and StarLancer rely too much on cutscenes, I think. A more balanced use of cutscenes is recommended.

I think 10-15 seconds of cutscenes both at the beginning and at the end of a mission aren't enough to piss people off.

[karajorma]

Pisses me off.

[Mobius]

So I assume Diaspora will never ever feature such cutscenes?

[Dilmah G]

The Wings thing was something I didn't pick up on but sounds awesome when spelled out to me like that I've got to write it down somewhere. Progressively harder wings aren't something I was conscious of in the retail campaign, but I'm definetely going to put it to use. 

[karajorma]

So I assume Diaspora will never ever feature such cutscenes?

Whether it annoys me or not isn't the only factor in choosing whether something gets into Diaspora or not. I'm not some autocrat who chooses whether or not features get in based on my own foibles.

But in general I feel that having a cutscene repeat when you choose the quick replay option rather than allowing you to get back into the action as quickly as possible is a huge mistake.

[Mobius]

What about cutscenes that can be jumped by pressing a single button, but only after the first playthrough(via variable)?

[karajorma]

Possible, but you're very badly hampered by the fact that the most logical key (ESC) can't be used.

[Rhymes]

Well, you could use the spacebar or Enter.  After escape, most people tend to press those to skip cutscenes.

[Mobius]

A subtitle is enough to tell the player which button he is supposed to press to skip the cutscene...

[Snail]

Yeah, a little indiscreet subtitle in the corner like "Space to Skip" would work.


That said, I still don't like taking off or landing cutscenes.

[Spoon]

Which custom campaigns are you comparing with? You are making a lot of general statements in your first post that may not apply to every custom campaign made?
Just wonderin'

[Goober5000]

I think 10-15 seconds of cutscenes both at the beginning and at the end of a mission aren't enough to piss people off.

Even the five-second hyperspace animation at the beginning of a mission in TIE Fighter is long enough to be annoying.  Unlike the launching animation, it's not skippable.

[Mobius]

Which custom campaigns are you comparing with? You are making a lot of general statements in your first post that may not apply to every custom campaign made?
Just wonderin'

I haven't played all custom campaigns, but I surely played the vast majority of them. So far I've seen pretty much what I've enlisted in the first post of this thread with very poor levels of variety. If you can redirect my attention to a different campaign, let me know.

Even the five-second hyperspace animation at the beginning of a mission in TIE Fighter is long enough to be annoying.  Unlike the launching animation, it's not skippable.

In FS they could be skippable.

[Spoon]

I haven't played all custom campaigns, but I surely played the vast majority of them. So far I've seen pretty much what I've enlisted in the first post of this thread with very poor levels of variety. If you can redirect my attention to a different campaign, let me know. [/mobius]

Heh, well you most likely played more of em then I did. I can't say I played them while actively looking for 'fred things' either. So I'm not exactly able to point out any good examples in this case. Like I said, I was just wondering (;

[Mongoose]

You made a few good points in there, but this...

Bomber wings' loadout - was superior

In Feint! Parry! Riposte! Zeta and Iota wings launch swarm missiles instead of torpedoes.

Also, throughout the campaign the default payloads bombers could rely on were more balanced that their counterparts seen in most custom-made campaigns. FREDders tend to issue full banks of Helios, Cyclops and other torpedoes.

To be perfectly honest, I greatly prefer the custom-made option to 's usual loadouts.  I tend to get the vast majority of my kills by primaries alone, so I don't put a whole lot of stock in my missile loadout.  When stuck me in a bomber mission, I tended to swap out any and all other banks to stock up on as many bombs as I could; I knew that I'd wind up doing the majority of damage to capital ships, so I wanted to deal with as few rearming sequences as possible.  Custom-made campaigns that tend to do the same save me from that extra step every time I start a bombing mission.

[Mobius]

I understand what you mean - I should have limited that part of my post to missions, like High Noon, before which it's not possible to choose the loadout. In High Noon and Bearbaiting used the Helios/Trebuchet combo while most campaign creators would go for the Helios/Helios combo or similar.

was right in limiting the player's ownage capabilities so that more importance was given to wingmen and game tactics. You're right when the loadout is customizable, however - just like you(and most members, I guess) I tend to fill my bomber with torpedoes to get more kills and achieve more objectives.

[TopAce]

I found that having a bank of Trebuchets makes more sense than having two banks of Helios bombs. If your Helios pair hit at the BFRed turret is inaccurate, and the turret is left at 5-8 percent, I wouldn't waste a Helios to it, but a Trebuchet. Akhetons are too slow for this purpose, too.

[Krelus]

I used to just use nothing but waved wings, but I figured "Hell, I've got nine unused Zodiacs, wtf am I doing?" so I think the most I've done so far was three waves?