[TrashMan]

But you must not forget, that FS2 is a game where the player is a fighter pilot. If the player was a capship pilot, the game would be balanced quite differently.

The FS2 universe and FS2 game balance are 2 completely different things.

[General Battuta]

Basically, the thing is, a cruiser is no match for fighters/bombers.

Well, if a cruiser can take on four wings (16) assault fighters, it's doing a lot better than a real life cruiser would...

[AlphaOne]

You do understand of course that a cruiser is not supposed to take on the enemy in such massive numbers. A cruiser is usually escort for corvette or destroyer dint you ? Rather its canon fodder so that the said destroyer survives. I mean you have bombers that are almost half the size or even bigger then half the size of a cruiser.

Also if you wanna talk AAAF defence then please do test out the Deimos !


Also going away from conventional destroyers? Well OK then I'm just curious what are those pilots gonna do when a ravana or a demon jumps in and as usual they are outgunned and outnumbered. Since the shivans do have a nasty habit of overwhelming the enemy . You Gui's do remember that don't you ?

The Orion is superb as a capship killer but sucks at defending itself . the Hecate is pretty good at defending herself but sucks at taking out capships. I say we marry the two.

Modify the Orion so that it actually HAS AAA defences to speak of. It doesn't really need a larger carrier capacity since its pretty decent at  about 100 !

Just use the bombers and fighters to engage the enemy then jump in with the Orion main guns and take out the enemy capship after its been disarmed.

Also build Iceni type ships. FAST and really powerfull. Slap on some dual jumpdrive on it and you're good to go. I mean if you want to escort it then send 2 wings of fighters along for the ride. Have them provide fightercover while the things takes out enemy capships.

Also mass produce the Deimos and the Sobek (improve on the Sobek a bit if you can ) ! Slap 1 BGreen on the Deimos and one BVas on the Sobek and you're all good !

[pietraz]

Basically, the thing is, a cruiser is no match for fighters/bombers.

Well, if a cruiser can take on four wings (16) assault fighters, it's doing a lot better than a real life cruiser would...

It can't. I didn't send 5 wings (20 machines) but 5 actual fighters. Aeolus was history in one minute or so.

Comparisons to real-life warfare are out of place here.
First, because they can't harness subspace ()
Second, they don't use beams
Third, they fight on far greater ranges than FS2 ships.
Fourth, because the nomenclature is messed up. Cruisers should be the biggest ships around and corvettes the smallest, destroyers being somewhere in the middle. Besides, all of them can carry several fighter wings, something which existing ships can't do (1-4 choppers and that's it)

[General Battuta]

Old news, friend.

[Killer Whale]

Basically, the thing is, a cruiser is no match for fighters/bombers.

Well, if a cruiser can take on four wings (16) assault fighters, it's doing a lot better than a real life cruiser would...

If 10 cruisers can take out one fs2 fighter their doing a lot better than a real life cruiser. Read: Fury = several kilotonnes


Would a bgreen or an ultra-antifighter-beam take more energy, because you could have an orion, replace it's BGreens with UltraAAAs and clear the reactor space out for fighters or channel the remaining power into a forward LRBGreen that's designed to be overcharged.

Strap 4 mjolnirs onto a large asteroid, slap on a couple of engines and a jump drive and you have a strike craft. Or have outerspace bunkers made of huge asteroids with a reactor at their center that powers a bgreen and have them floating around in space for a sath to pound away on while a GTVA fleet attacks it and provides fighter cover.

You could spread out through many, many, many systems so losing a couple to supernovas and planet bombardment does't matter so much. But you'd have to have a fleet too to stop them spreading too fast.

Blow up any node you see and rely on traversing space very slowly rather than subspace.

Or you could use the money for the colossuses, frigates, upgrades, corvettes, carriers, fighters, bombers, meson bombs, destroyers, personell, mjolnirs, etc. for having a good time because you think they're gone for good or you believe your doomed if the shivans come again with a greater force anyway.

[Enigmatic Entity]

I know what choice you'd make...

[NGTM-1R]

Well, if a cruiser can take on four wings (16) assault fighters, it's doing a lot better than a real life cruiser would...

A Slava or a Tico could probably do that...

[General Battuta]

Well, if a cruiser can take on four wings (16) assault fighters, it's doing a lot better than a real life cruiser would...

A Slava or a Tico could probably do that...

Let me go game it in Harpoon!

...doesn't look too likely.

[colecampbell666]

Fury (or was it Tempest?) = 3kt explosion. Hiroshima was only 20kt. Do the math.

[General Battuta]

...buh?

I don't mean a real-life cruiser could take on a bunch of Herc IIs. I mean a bunch of Panavia Tornadoes or whatever.

[pietraz]

Fury (or was it Tempest?) = 3kt explosion. Hiroshima was only 20kt. Do the math.

Fury in FS1, Tempest in FS2.

3 KT? Yeah, right. It may be written as 3KT, but it's more like 3kg...
Let's see... 3KT, that would be 3 thousand tonnes... A small cruiser made wholly of TNT... Imagine a model of Aten made of TNT exploding... Tempest, anyone?

Besides, the bomb that fell on Hiroshima was 12kt. The other one (Nagasaki) was 20kt.
And you're trying to tell us, that Tempest's strength is like a quarter of that which wiped out a whole city?
I don't think so... Even Helios doesn't get anywhere close to these yields. Or FS2 vacuum is extremely dense...

[Killer Whale]

Futuristic, remember? New types of missiles, explosives, etc. And think, a kilogram on uranium can unleash kilotonnes of damage while it's very small, you don't need a thousand tonnes of TNT. In another couple of hundred years it would be a lot more powerful (hehe; ). And wasn't 640 points = a megatonne due to the habringer's description?

[Kie99]

Or FS2 vacuum is extremely dense...

What?

[General Battuta]

Fury (or was it Tempest?) = 3kt explosion. Hiroshima was only 20kt. Do the math.

Fury in FS1, Tempest in FS2.

3 KT? Yeah, right. It may be written as 3KT, but it's more like 3kg...
Let's see... 3KT, that would be 3 thousand tonnes... A small cruiser made wholly of TNT... Imagine a model of Aten made of TNT exploding... Tempest, anyone?

Besides, the bomb that fell on Hiroshima was 12kt. The other one (Nagasaki) was 20kt.
And you're trying to tell us, that Tempest's strength is like a quarter of that which wiped out a whole city?
I don't think so... Even Helios doesn't get anywhere close to these yields. Or FS2 vacuum is extremely dense...

You are incorrect. The weapons used in Freespace appear to have yields much greater than that of the Hiroshima bomb. The Helios, a compact antimatter weapon, could destroy entire cities -- perhaps more.

It appears that Freespace armor and shields are extremely resilient.

[pietraz]

Ugh, what I meant is that ok, it can be antimatter and stuff... But hell, look at the wimpy explosion of Tempest (and other warheads). It's like a firecracker. 3kt charge would vaporize everything in like 100-200m radius. And I mean everything. Then there's radiation, shockwaves, heat (far greater than surface of stars), light surge. And Helios' yield measured in MT? It would send the whole Shivan Sath battlegroup to oblivion.

Or FS2 vacuum is extremely dense...

What?

That was just a joke... The explosion of the bombs that hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki had to overcome the air drag and Earth's gravity. In vacuum those explosions would be bigger.

[General Battuta]

Ugh, what I meant is that ok, it can be antimatter and stuff... But hell, look at the wimpy explosion of Tempest (and other warheads). It's like a firecracker. 3kt charge would vaporize everything in like 100-200m radius. And I mean everything. Then there's radiation, shockwaves, heat (far greater than surface of stars), light surge. And Helios' yield measured in MT? It would send the whole Shivan Sath battlegroup to oblivion.

Or FS2 vacuum is extremely dense...

What?

That was just a joke... The explosion of the bombs that hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki had to overcome the air drag and Earth's gravity. In vacuum those explosions would be bigger.

No, untrue; in vacuum there's no blast wave or EMP, so nukes are comparatively less deadly.

And, again, since you have no idea what ship armor is made of, you can't know if the blast would vaporize everything for kilometers around.

Explosions don't have to 'overcome gravity'.

And there's no heat here except that carried by light and the actual plasma generated by the detonation. No convection.

Ugh, real science and Freespace just don't mix, but if you're gonna use real science, make sure you know the real science.

[Snail]

Explosions in vacuum are less powerful.

* Snail calls HerraTohtori

[pietraz]

More or less powerful, whatever. But not 3kt blast looking like a firecracker.
And that's the major point of my post.

I'm not a nuclear physicist, but I've found NASA publication about that: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/conghand/nuclear.htm

Ok, so true, no blast, less heat and stuff. EMP, however, remains. As does lethal radiation.

The argument about 3kt warhead doing more damage remains however.

As for the blast... No blast from the nuclear warheads, but the ships (with some sort of reactors, I presume) blast pretty well. Inconsistency... Never mind, ppl, this leads nowhere. It's a game after all and some sort of simplification is unavoidable (sound in vacuum, physics messed up etc.)

[General Battuta]

That page doesn't say anything about EMP. EMP is generated by the atmosphere around the blast, not the blast itself. In space, I don't think you'll get any EMP.

Inconsistency... Never mind, ppl, this leads nowhere. It's a game after all and some sort of simplification is unavoidable (sound in vacuum, physics messed up etc.)

Now you're getting it.