Author Topic: Man, I love Garak...  (Read 3571 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline an0n

  • Banned again
  • 211
  • Emo Hunter
    • http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum
Man, I love Garak...
From DS9, incase you're an idiot.

Quote
[14:47:01] * an0n watches In The Pale Moonlight for about the 20th time
[14:56:30] <an0n> Garaks plans and motivations are... perfect.
[14:57:44] <an0n> The basic plan is to fake a holorecording to trick Vreenak - the strongest voice in the Romulan Senate in favour of alliance with the Dominion - into believing the Dominion are going to attack the Romulan Empire, during a secret detour after he's left a meeting with Weyoun - a high-ranking Dominion official.
[14:59:09] <an0n> If it works, they win. If Vreenak discovers the recording is a fake, Garak had already planted a bomb on his shuttle so Vreenak would be dead, and in the wreckage the Romulans would find the holorecording and any imperfections would appear to be as a result of the explosion...
[14:59:57] <an0n> But even if the recording hadn't survived, Vreenak's shuttle would still have exploded in a manner implicating the Dominion, shortly after he'd left a meeting with the Dominion - which would probably have caused a war anyways...
[15:00:32] <an0n> And even if the Romulans hadn't believed the Dominion had blown up the shuttle, Vreenak would still be dead and the pro-Dominion ranks within the Romulan Empire would have lost their primary voice of leadership.
[15:00:42] <an0n> His entire plan was just perfect.

I love that entire episode. It was one of the last examples of Star Trek having a truly, genuinely good plot.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline BlackDove

  • Star Killer
  • 211
  • Section 3 of the GTVI
    • http://www.shatteredstar.org
Re: Man, I love Garak...
The only good thing in Star Trek was posted by me in the other thread.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Man, I love Garak...
My thought on that Episode: Starfleet idealism, meet realpolitik.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Knight Templar

  • Stealth
  • 212
  • I'm a magic man, I've got magic hands.
Re: Man, I love Garak...
He's definitely one of the deeper and more interesting characters in the series. While there are a lot of interesting characters, not many of them play that far outside their roles (Data always being curious and naive, Troi always being sensitive (except for the command test episode) Vulcans always being Vulcans (except for 4th season T'pol) Geordi always being blind, etc)

Garak is a great character not so much because you want to emulate him (though I really kind of do sometimes) but because you want to understand him. Discovering what makes him tick is what makes him inspiring. You don't get that inspiration with 'flatter' characters like say... Dr. Crusher, or Malcom or Riker.

The captains get some playtime with this, but to me they always come out as fairly consistent characters by the end, not really changing much from their experiences (Picard dealing with being borg, dealing with 4 lights equaling 5. Janeway dealing with what side of her bed she rolls out of and whether or not she's going to blow up a civilization today to get home a little faster, or save them instead of getting home immediately. Sisko with being a wartime captain and being space Jesus. Archer with doing nothing for the first two seasons, then fighting terrorism in the last two.) Though out of all of them, I'd argue Picard may have made the biggest shift, going from a naive, grumpy man in dealing with Q in the beginning to becoming a not-so-naive, slightly less grumpy, more optimistic old man by the end. Again, the redshift isn't huge, but it is measurable.

On the whole though, I feel like despite TNG's mantra of trying to be classic Star Trek with a modern twist by developing stories introspective of modern society, DS9 was actually the  most introspective so far. Probably has to do with the war.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 09:05:11 pm by Knight Templar »
Copyright ©1976, 2003, KT Enterprises. All rights reserved

"I don't want to get laid right now. I want to get drunk."- Mars

Too Long, Didn't Read

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
Re: Man, I love Garak...
Ironic that one of the most human characters in the entire series was an alien...

Still, I could say the same for Babylon 5...

 

Offline Mr. Vega

  • Your Node Is Mine
  • 28
  • The ticket to the future is always blank
Re: Man, I love Garak...
You mean Londo right?
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes

 

Offline Knight Templar

  • Stealth
  • 212
  • I'm a magic man, I've got magic hands.
Re: Man, I love Garak...
Ironic that one of the most human characters in the entire series was an alien...

Still, I could say the same for Babylon 5...

zomg the aliens! they're so much like us yet look so weird!
Copyright ©1976, 2003, KT Enterprises. All rights reserved

"I don't want to get laid right now. I want to get drunk."- Mars

Too Long, Didn't Read

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
Re: Man, I love Garak...
Yup, the wole Londo/G'Kar thing was far and away what made B5 the epic it was in my opinion, without the depth they added, the show really was a kind of 'Flash Gordon with CGI' affair.

Delenn pulls the odd classic moment out of the hat, namely the classic 'One human has survived combat with the Minbari, he is behind me, you are in front of me, if you value your lives, I suggest you be somewhere else', and the Doctor and Garibaldi are both pretty strong characters, but there's no denying the sheer skill that Katsulas and Jurasik have in pulling off their relationship, their experience shines through.

Ironic that one of the most human characters in the entire series was an alien...

Still, I could say the same for Babylon 5...

zomg the aliens! they're so much like us yet look so weird!

That's part of the irony, Star Trek, the show famous for having alien cultures that were nothing more than a human culture inflated to a planetary scale, managed to produce someone as deep as Garak.

  

Offline Knight Templar

  • Stealth
  • 212
  • I'm a magic man, I've got magic hands.
Re: Man, I love Garak...

Ironic that one of the most human characters in the entire series was an alien...

Still, I could say the same for Babylon 5...

zomg the aliens! they're so much like us yet look so weird!

That's part of the irony, Star Trek, the show famous for having alien cultures that were nothing more than a human culture inflated to a planetary scale, managed to produce someone as deep as Garak.

The third or fourth episode of TNG with the Congo planet of misogynist African fools was fun. As is the homo/androgynous/tri - sexual planet with gender issues that appears at least once or twice in every series. I'm not sure I got the message yet. I hope they add in an episode about the sanctity of Gak'Tork tri-sexual marriage into the next series, with neo-Riker either opposing it or finding himself caught in one.
Copyright ©1976, 2003, KT Enterprises. All rights reserved

"I don't want to get laid right now. I want to get drunk."- Mars

Too Long, Didn't Read

 

Offline IceFire

  • GTVI Section 3
  • 212
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ce
Re: Man, I love Garak...
I love that episode of DS9.  Its one of the best episodes they ever did....partly I think because of the established Star Trek lore.  The best part about that episode is all of the rules that Sisko bends or breaks.  Those rules we know...espoused time and time again and now we know where they can break and under what circumstances.  Such an excellent episode.  Garak is excellent in so many episodes....and he starts off as being a character that is in the background...the way he comes forward is brilliant as well.

DS9 has been on a lot recently and I've been rewatching it and I have to say that I like it allot more now than when I was younger.  There are still some episodes that really bother me and I just turn it off....but there are some excellent ones as well.  This is one.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 06:25:10 pm by IceFire »
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: Man, I love Garak...
DS9 has been on allot recently
:wtf: Are you trying to circumvent the smiley filter?

But yes, that episode of DS9 was awesome.  Possibly the best ever.

 

Offline Nuke

  • Ka-Boom!
  • 212
  • Mutants Worship Me
Re: Man, I love Garak...
garak is just as cool in person as he is on the show. i met him last time i went to a star trek convention. i was still a virgin back then.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Knight Templar

  • Stealth
  • 212
  • I'm a magic man, I've got magic hands.
Re: Man, I love Garak...
last time i went to a star trek convention

The real story in this post. Note how I ignored the bit about adult virginity.
Copyright ©1976, 2003, KT Enterprises. All rights reserved

"I don't want to get laid right now. I want to get drunk."- Mars

Too Long, Didn't Read

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Man, I love Garak...
Well it depends on whether or not he was outing Andrew Robinson with that comment. :p


Getting back to the main topic, I agree that the episode is a very good one. DS9 never really had me gripped until they began the storyline with the Dominion.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Knight Templar

  • Stealth
  • 212
  • I'm a magic man, I've got magic hands.
Re: Man, I love Garak...
DS9 didn't really have a solid story until the Dominion. Nothing other than the whole Bajoran Jewish vs. Nazi post WWII question.
Copyright ©1976, 2003, KT Enterprises. All rights reserved

"I don't want to get laid right now. I want to get drunk."- Mars

Too Long, Didn't Read

 

Offline Rhymes

  • Galactic Mediator
  • 29
  • Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Re: Man, I love Garak...
I agree.  DS9 was kinda aimless in the beginning.  Once the Dominion entered the picture, things were different.  A lot of the other shows were always very scientific (ex: Next Generation, parts of Voyager, Star Trek TOS), but DS9 was the most emotional, plus it was always fun seeing Odo and Quark drive each other crazy.  :P
If you don't have Knossos, you need it.

“There was a button," Holden said. "I pushed it."
"Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn't it?”

 

Offline an0n

  • Banned again
  • 211
  • Emo Hunter
    • http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum
Re: Man, I love Garak...
I just realised another layer of depth to Garak in the episode.

Garak refuses to touch the data rod. And although that's pretty obvious in the scene, and a given that he wouldn't want his DNA and fingerprints all over it in general - there's a specific reason.

He did a ton of work on Romulus. It's one of the few established facts about him that he worked as a gardener in the Cardassian Embassy, and that he probably murdered a ton of Romulan officials. Yet even during the Tal Shiar / Obsidian Order operation to wipe out the Founders' homeworld, the Tal Shiar had little to no idea who he was. They tried to kill him, granted - but only because Tain told them to and where to find him.

Plus, he was able to gain access to the highly classified travel plans of a high ranking Romulan senator on a secret diplomatic mission with relative ease.

The whole episode subtly implies that he remains heavily embroiled in Romulan affairs, and has astonishing power while maintaining absolute anonymity.

Intriguing.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Rhymes

  • Galactic Mediator
  • 29
  • Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Re: Man, I love Garak...
Just because he's not in the Obsidian Order doesn't mean he no longer has serious ties and high-up friends in  many places.
If you don't have Knossos, you need it.

“There was a button," Holden said. "I pushed it."
"Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn't it?”

 

Offline an0n

  • Banned again
  • 211
  • Emo Hunter
    • http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum
Re: Man, I love Garak...
Yeah, plus this was after the Tal Shiar had been obliterated by the Dominion, so Romulan security was probably severely diminished.

Y'know, I love the Obsidian Order in general. Like Tain.

Tain was able to formulate a massive scheme to try and wipe out the Founders, and the only reason it failed was because of flaws in Tal Shiar security. And even after the Lovok changeling had meshed the two operations together and become a closer, personal associate of Tain, Tain was still able to develop the prototype anti-shapeshifting device without Lovok having any goddamn idea.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline IceFire

  • GTVI Section 3
  • 212
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ce
Re: Man, I love Garak...
DS9 has been on allot recently
:wtf: Are you trying to circumvent the smiley filter?
Damn....I keep doing that.  I get my allot and a lot screwed up far too often.  Its one of those brain pathways I have to train myself from using.  I didn't used to do it...

Anyways....

Star Trek.

I'm going to see the new movie tonight....looking forward to it!
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."