[Flipside]

Abstract concepts such as Art are certainly part of the factor that helps us develop to where we are to day, as Cohen and Stewart defined it, many species have intelligence of some kind, but only humanity has developed extelligence to our knowledge, the ability to store thoughts and ideas in such a way that the owner of those concepts does not need to be alive for them to be passed on.

Humans are special, but then, so are Octopii, Dolphins, Elephants and pretty much every animal on the planet in some way.

[IceFire]

Actually I do consider humans to be special.  We're an interesting bunch from our complex social interactions to our creative and constructive capabilities (look at a map and think about it for a moment - all of those cities and roads).  Even our destructive capabilities are interesting because we pit one set of instincts against another set of instincts.  Most of all we do things for pleasure...most markedly are things like eating, sex, and violence (disturbing as that might be).

What we don't often appreciate is how our world actually has evolved the worlds of other species as well.  Rats, mice, cats, and dogs all come to mind.  House mice are apparently (I was reading) quite different from a field mouse. House mice have followed humans across the planet...they depend on our activities for their activities.  Domesticated animals that depend on us is another interesting relationship.  None of these are unique on their own (examples for all can be found)....but I think its the collection of everything that makes us interesting.

So yes....an interesting and special bunch we are.

[Flipside]

Well, in truth symbiotic relationships are rife throughout nature, from the famous ant/greenfly relationship to the fish that clean sharks teeth for them, though we are, admittedly, the first race to consciously alter another species to suit our purpose, but that's once more down to the fact we have the ability to pass ideas through several generations.

[BlackDove]

I feel special.



No, wait, I don't.

[ThesaurusRex]

I feel special.



No, wait, I don't.

How recently was that made? I noticed that Pluto wasn't on the list.

[Flipside]

Pluto was probably too small to count even if it was still considered a planet, it's not much bigger than the moon.

[iamzack]

If by "special" you mean really, really different from all the other animals, then yeah, we are.

I assumed "special" to mean somehow above other animals. (Typically in a religious sense... "We have souls, they don't. And therefore we have the right to do with them as we will.")

[BlackDove]

So you don't think animals have souls?

[iamzack]

I think every living thing has a soul. :]

But that's neither here nor there.

[BlackDove]

Your sig on the other hand, is way up the ****ed up alley.

[High Max]

I feel special.



No, wait, I don't.

How recently was that made? I noticed that Pluto wasn't on the list.

How ironic that yesterday or early this morning, I was watching youtube videos once again of size scales comparing stars, like here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpUWNYgVEfk&feature=related and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdkEbfctk8c&NR=1. Personally I like the music of both. This one is great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BjHvwSvpOw and this one is the best, in my opinion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRCGQOvd8Wo&feature=related

Humans are advanced in every cognitive way. Not only do we have great memory and creativity, but we have complex emotions. No other creature can fall in love in the sense that we do or lack/have confidence in the sense that we think about it, or think about things like honesty or morals. We are also the most conscious and aware, have intelligence socially, have complex communication abilities, and the ability to think very far into the future or into the past before we were born, unlike animals. We also have the ability to go against instincts, in most cases, and make advanced on the spot decisions as if we are more than just a body. I believe that the more complex the life form is when it comes to consciousness and cognitive abilities, the more likely it has a soul.

In a bodily sense, we are quite special and adaptable when it comes to being warm blooded, which allows us to live anywhere in the world, are omnivores, have hands (manipulators), have a complex four chambered heart which makes seperation of oxidated and non-oxidated blood more efficient, which can increase over all stamina, and we have numbers. Though being too numerous could also make each individual seem less special. We also have the best eyes when it comes to features and seeing colors detailed vision. We have many optical features combined, like seeing extreme color and detail, ability to focus close up or far away, seeing 3D, and peripheral vision all in one, as well as focusing in the dark to a certain extent. Most animals can't focus their eyes to see up close and far away like we can, I think. Eagles are stuck seeing telescopically, for example, according to what I heard. We can also change the shape of our lips and faces to make a wide range of facial movements and produce a wide range of sounds that other animals can't, therefore imitating animal sounds and sometimes animal calls.

Anything that an animal can do that we can't, we can give ourselves the ability to do by creating devices to do that or augment our abilities or protect us, thus also allowing us to visit certain places that would otherwise be impossible to go to. We can create certain devices like infrared goggles, protective clothing that acts like a strong hide or better, submarines, etc.

[blackhole]

I love how humans claim to be "above" animals, and yet we know absolutely goddamn nothing about the inner workings of the universe. If someone is clinically dead for a short period of time, that doesn't mean its impossible for them to receive and process input through brain cells that are still halfway functional. We are making the incredibly stupid association with setting our own limits on reality and then declaring that when something violates our own definition of reasonable it must have religious significance! Doesn't anyone realize how unbelievably STUPID we're being?!

When we're not being stupid dumbf-cks who can't get over their own pathetic religious instincts, maybe we can say we're better then animals. So far, however, we're simply really smart monkeys who are succeeding in becoming the most catastrophic environmental disaster ever unleashed on Earth.

We have a lot of sh!t to fix.

[High Max]

I love how humans claim to be "above" animals, and yet we know absolutely goddamn nothing about the inner workings of the universe. If someone is clinically dead for a short period of time, that doesn't mean its impossible for them to receive and process input through brain cells that are still halfway functional. We are making the incredibly stupid association with setting our own limits on reality and then declaring that when something violates our own definition of reasonable it must have religious significance! Doesn't anyone realize how unbelievably STUPID we're being?!

When we're not being stupid dumbf-cks who can't get over their own pathetic religious instincts, maybe we can say we're better then animals. So far, however, we're simply really smart monkeys who are succeeding in becoming the most catastrophic environmental disaster ever unleashed on Earth.

We have a lot of sh!t to fix.

I am talking about those who actually try to be intelligent and have decency, however. The ones who like to learn and improve their knowledge, strength in the mind and emotional control, physical health, and abilities; not the ones who have babe/jock syndrome.

And about your clinically dead comment: These people also experience a higher than normal consciousness as well as accurately said what was happening in the operating room while experiencing the OBE, among other things, as well as a family member who was sleeping at the time seeing the temporarily dead person in their dream and that person telling the family member to come down to the OR or something. If you are clinically dead, you wouldn't experience a higher than normal awareness; it would be far below normal. It also doesn't explain ghosts and sometimes many people being in the room witnessing them at the same time (the people all seeing the same things and hearing the same sounds at the same time, making them not hallucinations and in some cases not pranks).

If you don't want to believe you have a soul and will do whatever you can to try and think it is something else and refuse to think it is possible that it is a soul, then I guess you have personal reasons and don't want to because you hope there is no after life and don't want to exist forever.

[iamzack]

High Max: got any real sources to scientifically proven OBEs?

[Kosh]

We're all Terrans, lets form the GTA.

[High Max]

This for now: http://www.discoverychannel.co.uk/paranormal/parapsychology/obe/index.shtml. But I must look harder.

Edit: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1071693/posts

But people can stick with this: http://paranormal.about.com/od/lifeafterdeath/a/evol-afterlife.htm and decide for themselves.

[iamzack]

No proof in either of those. Like all paranormal stuff, it's mostly hearsay and conjecturing.

I think that humans are not "above" other animals, or really, any living thing, because we all got to where we are the same way. We all evolved from primordial goop, so... I mean, yeah.

[blackhole]

I refuse to believe in an afterlife because i refuse to BELIEVE in anything totally devoid of logic. I'm not the one whose going to waste hours of my precious time alive trying to appease some stupid deity in order to secure my place in an afterlife that doesn't exist. I'm not going to dedicate my entire life to annoying other people with my religion and expect to be rewarded for it when I'm dead. We get one chance. This isn't about what I want or what I don't want, its about whats real and whats not real. If you want to spend your life in a delusion specifically designed by a lobe of your brain to overcome logic and reason because you can't deal with reality, then fine.

This is exactly what I'm talking about - you are making the idiotic, if not borderline retarded, conclusion that because we can't explain something with our limited knowledge of the universe it is therefore proof that some stupid book written by a bunch of psychotics on LSD is true and we should totally worship it.

IF WE DONT UNDERSTAND SOMETHING, IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING.

But hey, you aren't going to listen, because you've already demonstrated that you're so totally absorbed in your own religious insanity that you must reassure yourself that everything you believed has to be true or the consequences to your psyche will be so severe it would possibly drive you insane. Fine. I don't give a ****. I've learned not to give a **** about any of this because its the equivalent of arguing with a kindergartner about politics.

[High Max]

Ah poor baby got angry. You won't listen either and I keep an open "no one knows for sure" train of thought unlike you. Also, for your info, I'm not religious and I must have hit a nerve since the truth on why you refuse to believe made you angry. Poor baby can't control his anger.

This is also an interesting story: http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa082800a.htm for all who are interested.

[General Battuta]

High Max, you need to avoid ad hominem attacks or you'll be monkeyed.

And you keep referring to near-death experiences as something mysterious, but we know what causes them and we can induce them in people who aren't anywhere near death.

Nothing mystical there.