Author Topic: Star trek the movie  (Read 27400 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Exactly. If you look at the comic and the movie together they haven't actually done anything that is impossible in the Trek universe. A lot of stuff that is implausible perhaps, especially when it comes to character motivations, but nothing that actually goes against the universe.

Which means that they obviously knew Trek very well but were simply not very good at turning it into a sensible storyline for a movie.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Ford Prefect

  • 8D
  • 26
  • Intelligent Dasein
Just saw it a third time, and I would like to add one more argument against the movie to Kara's list: It almost cost me my face, which came close to melting off due to the sheer awesomeness.

Seriously, how does anyone not enjoy that? I feel like Hollywood gave me a blowjob.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Turambar

  • Determined to inflict his entire social circle on us
  • 210
  • You can't spell Manslaughter without laughter
the moment with the enterprise warping in and delivering the massive, precisely targeted phaser salvo and destroying all the romulan torpedoes was pretty awesome
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline Sushi

  • Art Critic
  • 211
the moment with the enterprise warping in and delivering the massive, precisely targeted phaser salvo and destroying all the romulan torpedoes was pretty awesome

...and further defied suspension of disbelief. If federation ships could shoot down torpedoes like that, coming in blind out of warp without any time to acquire lock or anything beforehand, how the crap did Nero's ship lay waste to the entire federation fleet at once? Why couldn't they shoot down torpedoes like that THEN?

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
They were tracking the launches and projectiles prior to the warp and had precise data for where to shoot on arrival. The fleet, on the other hand, went in blind and was engaged at extremely short range, as was the Kelvin. Boxer versus a puncher. The Federation ship will only have an advantage as long as it stays away. (Which given the more recent vintage of the Narada was probably impossible.)


EDIT: Come to think of it the whole "Spock should have been in shock about the Romulans" thing is a red herring as well. People aboard the Kelvin saw what Romulans looked like before then and I have to believe the shuttles would have saved some kind of "black box" of the transmissions recieved prior to abandon ship being ordered. They did know what Romulans looked like assuming they could identify the Narada from the same information as a Romulan craft. (Which apparently they could.)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 02:37:32 am by NGTM-1R »
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Exactly. If you look at the comic and the movie together they haven't actually done anything that is impossible in the Trek universe. A lot of stuff that is implausible perhaps, especially when it comes to character motivations, but nothing that actually goes against the universe. 


That doesn't say much, given that pretty much everything is possible in the Trek universe. The only law it follows in the one of plot convenience.
ST has enough technobabble already. Did they REALLY need to introduce new stuff? Like that red matter and black hole time-travel?


They were tracking the launches and projectiles prior to the warp and had precise data for where to shoot on arrival. The fleet, on the other hand, went in blind and was engaged at extremely short range, as was the Kelvin. Boxer versus a puncher. The Federation ship will only have an advantage as long as it stays away. (Which given the more recent vintage of the Narada was probably impossible.)

That explanation doesn't hold water, sorry.
What's preventing other frederation ships from tracking the missiles from warp? How do you know the Enterprise tracked them prior to warp?
Also, they are missiles - they change their flight path, they don't travel in a straight line. So long-term prediction is pretty much useless here.
And finally, we have computers and radars powerful enough to lock on, track and direct fire on missiles within a second right now.
Federation ships shouldn't have trouble shooting down missiles the second they arrive.



EDIT: Come to think of it the whole "Spock should have been in shock about the Romulans" thing is a red herring as well. People aboard the Kelvin saw what Romulans looked like before then and I have to believe the shuttles would have saved some kind of "black box" of the transmissions recieved prior to abandon ship being ordered. They did know what Romulans looked like assuming they could identify the Narada from the same information as a Romulan craft. (Which apparently they could.)
[/quote]
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Exactly. If you look at the comic and the movie together they haven't actually done anything that is impossible in the Trek universe. A lot of stuff that is implausible perhaps, especially when it comes to character motivations, but nothing that actually goes against the universe. 


That doesn't say much, given that pretty much everything is possible in the Trek universe. The only law it follows in the one of plot convenience.
ST has enough technobabble already. Did they REALLY need to introduce new stuff? Like that red matter and black hole time-travel?

Nope. They didn't. It was lazy writing.

But again, that's argument 1) stuff.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Turambar

  • Determined to inflict his entire social circle on us
  • 210
  • You can't spell Manslaughter without laughter
Q randomly showed up and made a bunch of plot inconsistencies to piss off Star Trek nerds.  He thought it would be funny.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
That explanation doesn't hold water, sorry.
What's preventing other frederation ships from tracking the missiles from warp? How do you know the Enterprise tracked them prior to warp?

We accept that, apparently, this version of the Enterprise does not have the ability to track objects when at warp, or at least objects as small as ships.

However, we also accept that the engagement between the Octopus and the Narada took place in the neighborhood of the Solar System, and the Enterprise had been specifically directed to shadow the Narada and attack if they thought they had the advantage. Of course they were tracking it. Kirk literally ordered them to.

Or did you forget the scene where he told Scotty that?

Also, they are missiles - they change their flight path, they don't travel in a straight line. So long-term prediction is pretty much useless here.
And finally, we have computers and radars powerful enough to lock on, track and direct fire on missiles within a second right now.
Federation ships shouldn't have trouble shooting down missiles the second they arrive.

The first assertion is not borne out by evidence in the movie. They do not.
The second is irrevelant.
The third is also irrevelant; the Kelvin was putting out a lot of fire but did not appear to be connecting so something was obviously not working. Most likely some form of directed jamming was involved, as available evidence is that up until the Enterprise drops out of warp by surprise and hits the missiles everyone the Narada engaged was either expected or did not open fire immediately.

"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Fenrir

  • 28
  • ?
Q randomly showed up and made a bunch of plot inconsistencies to piss off Star Trek nerds.  He thought it would be funny.

There's an explanation I can get behind.

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Q randomly showed up and made a bunch of plot inconsistencies to piss off Star Trek nerds.  He thought it would be funny.
I'm actually hoping for Q to show up in the sequel, and set everything straight.

Speaking of which, they really should have had a TNG movie with Q.  They missed a great opportunity there.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
The first assertion is not borne out by evidence in the movie. They do not.
The second is irrevelant.
The third is also irrevelant; the Kelvin was putting out a lot of fire but did not appear to be connecting so something was obviously not working. Most likely some form of directed jamming was involved, as available evidence is that up until the Enterprise drops out of warp by surprise and hits the missiles everyone the Narada engaged was either expected or did not open fire immediately.

Wrong.

They are missiles. You actually can see them turn a bit in the movie.

The second is not irrelevant. We know extremely powerful computers exist in ST. So o claim they cannot lock onto missiles is downright stupid.

And the third is very relevant. From the moment Kirks old man took over command and the battle resumed, to the point where the Kelvin was destroyed - minutes passed. How can the already damaged Kelvin survive for 5 minutes if NOT by shooting down missiles? IIRC, you can actually see it shooting down 1 or 2.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Wrong.

They are missiles. You actually can see them turn a bit in the movie.

The second is not irrelevant. We know extremely powerful computers exist in ST. So o claim they cannot lock onto missiles is downright stupid.

And the third is very relevant. From the moment Kirks old man took over command and the battle resumed, to the point where the Kelvin was destroyed - minutes passed. How can the already damaged Kelvin survive for 5 minutes if NOT by shooting down missiles? IIRC, you can actually see it shooting down 1 or 2.

Assuming you're correct, and I'm not sure you are, it's still not enough enough. Minor course corrections immediately after launch, not the sort of evasive manuvers that would be required to spoof targetting.

Yes it damn well is irrevelant. We're talking about Star Trek and trying to compare it to modernity is inviting madness. There are easier ways to go crazy; I recommend joining a cult that worships the Old Ones myself.

Simple: it's a ****ing spaceship. With only one person aboard, in what is presumably the most well-protected part of the ship, it's very hard to stop. The saucer section and the way the ship was oriented served to shield its engines from the Narada, it was apparently well-compartmentalized, and it is in space. You can't sink it and it doesn't burn. Absent the two greatest killers of ships, things become vastly more difficult.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Okay, hold on, the Kelvin definitely shot down several of the Narada's missiles. That was a plot point - it saved the shuttles by destroying missiles heading for them.

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
What were the 'Time Police' doing during all of this, I wonder?

 

Offline Angelus

  • 210
  • The Angriest Angel
What were the 'Time Police' doing during all of this, I wonder?


Hm, they probably show up in the TV show based on the new Movie. :P

 
Simple: it's a ****ing spaceship. With only one person aboard, in what is presumably the most well-protected part of the ship, it's very hard to stop. The saucer section and the way the ship was oriented served to shield its engines from the Narada, it was apparently well-compartmentalized, and it is in space. You can't sink it and it doesn't burn. Absent the two greatest killers of ships, things become vastly more difficult.

IMO, the bridges on Starfleet ships in Trek'09 are a joke.  Why?  Because they don't have viewscreens, they have WINDSCREENS!  You can see the Kelvin's windscreen start to crack before it goes boom.  But I give you the statements on being hard to kill.  For too long 'mainstream' Sci-fi has practically always had their ships go boom big time after a few hits.

Again, treknobabble could explain this in a compicated way...

Anyhoow, I'm off to go see Revenge of the Fallen.
Find me as Hojo Norem elsewhere...

butter_pat_head... a name picked in sheer desperation more than 10 years ago from some super obscure Red Dwarf reference.

 

Offline Kie99

  • 211
Q randomly showed up and made a bunch of plot inconsistencies to piss off Star Trek nerds.  He thought it would be funny.
I'm actually hoping for Q to show up in the sequel, and set everything straight.

Speaking of which, they really should have had a TNG movie with Q.  They missed a great opportunity there.

I don't think they did.  While I loved the character of Q, I can't see him being the sort of character who'd fit in well in a film - at least not, a successful mainstream one.  I've enjoyed all the episodes I've seen him in but couldn't see any of them transferring well onto the big screen.
"You shot me in the bollocks, Tim"
"Like I said, no hard feelings"

 

Offline Turambar

  • Determined to inflict his entire social circle on us
  • 210
  • You can't spell Manslaughter without laughter
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Okay, hold on, the Kelvin definitely shot down several of the Narada's missiles. That was a plot point - it saved the shuttles by destroying missiles heading for them.

Well, yes, it did. But on the other hand, the shuttles were making tracks and the Kelvin's record at shooting down missiles headed for it was a lot worse. (I was honestly quiet surprised to see that the shuttles all got away, but then by that point the Kelvin had gone all "ramming speed" so the Narada was probably a bit busy.)
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story