Author Topic: Orum'Pur - first campaign  (Read 1262 times)

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Offline Jackho

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Orum'Pur - first campaign
Hello world!

Time to be part of this community. I mean, really do something. So here it is my almost first attempt on FREDding a mission from zero to end. I think it's polished enough to release it so tell me what. I'd like to make a mini campaign but if my skills weren't  good enough this would lead me nowhere. So please test it and be rude  :ick:

Also I tried my best to make it a coherent story and I can't think of any more way to screw this mission up so I think it's a pretty solid screenplay. But maybe I'm wrong.

You need nothing besides fsport3.5 and a good joystick. And PBR assets of course  :yes:

Will I get feedbacks? wait and see...

EDIT : last minute update with nebula and shields system  for Horus

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« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 10:59:52 am by Jackho »
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Orum'Pur - first mission
I can't think of any more way to screw this mission up

So it's a challenge then is it? :p
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Offline Jackho

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Re: Orum'Pur - first mission
Yeah ! yeah ! Much money involved !  :lol:

More seriously, as a matter of fact this was more or less like a proposal to help me see what is wrong with the design of this mission.
My goal is clearly to improve. And I think people might  not last long before coming up with something I forgot, although I hope not (of course). Did you give it a try?

Right now I'm struggling with collision detection in the next mission I'm creating.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Orum'Pur - first mission
I've downloaded it. I'll try to give it a play later today.
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Offline Jackho

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Re: Orum'Pur - first mission
Second mission is in progress now. FREDding is hard as hell but also so much rewarding!
This one is a training mission, I hope people will like it as I'm putting much love in it.
Fortunately, In case I make an error or I don't understand why things don't go the wayI think they should, event.log is here  to help me, thank God  (isn't it a bit of  praise and boasting  for you Karajorma :drevil: ! )
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Orum'Pur - first mission
Sorry to take so long but I finally got a chance to play the mission today. Overall a fairly good mission and not a bad start to a campaign. That said, you asked me to find flaws, so here we go.

Mission Problems

- The mission is a little empty. I fought the first wing of Anubis fighters and then I sat around waiting for something interesting to happen but very little did. I kept expecting enemy fighters to jump in and try to rescue Radich but nope. Nothing.

- When the enemy appear, the directives don't change. It seems somewhat odd to be told to simply carry out a patrol when there are enemy ships shooting at me.

- At the end of the mission I get told to warp out. To where? I'm supposedly based on the station behind me, so where am I going? You might want to consider using the end-mission SEXP to end the mission when you press a key.

- If you blow the transport away, you fail the mission and get complained at that you were told to scan it. No you weren't. No such message is ever sent. This is especially annoying since we have no directives suggesting we try to capture the transport rather than just blowing it away.

- If you press alt-J at the start of the mission you get recommendations that give away all kinds of details about the mission. Well done for spotting you need a fail briefing for doing that though, it's a very common mistake to miss that one.

- The setting seems a bit wrong. The game repeatedly refers to being part of the GTVA but BETAC was only signed some 20 years or so after the end of the Great War. So the player still flying Apollos against Anubises seems very wrong. By that point you would already have expected both sides to have phased out such old fighters.

- It's nitpicking but it's something several of us mission designers will notice. The planet has been placed in such a way that although the sun is behind it, it is strongly lit from the front. How? There's no light source to do that!

- There are quite a few grammatical errors and bits where the text seems a bit strange. Although a good editor will help you solve those issues once you are ready to release.


Apart from that though, with a bit of spit and polish this could be a decent start to a campaign.
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Offline Jackho

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Re: Orum'Pur - first mission
Never mind, I'm just so glad you could finally help me to progress. You know, I see by reading the forum that you take time to test several missions we newbies come up with and we say 'this is good, try it!'. I've read every walkthroughs and tutorials you made and part of that gave me wish to do this one mission (and more to come). So please don't ever apologize for doing things other peoples don't.

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-The mission is a little empty...
Good lord! So you were so quick at it? It takes me ages to get rid of the escort, that's why I made Delta available as reinforcement, otherwise I can get either the bonus or Radich but not both. I guess I'm not the skilled pilot my mom thought I could once be :lol:
Ok I'll see to it that there's a bit more excitement on this part of the mission then.

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-When the enemy appear, the directives don't change....
I must admit you're right on this (almost), because I did add them but then I removed them on purpose. As a matter of fact it was intended. What if you are told with a directive to nuke everyone and then you see in the debriefing that the mission went 'not so well'? Well I'll find a way to add a directive but I don't want to spoil the importance of scanning before killing. That's why I made it an order from Alpha2's wing leader instead, remember that? He didn't tell Alpha2 to kill, but to investigate (scan). I thought that would suffice but I was apparently wrong. And also did you notice that you can kill the transport and get the mission success? I'll write more on this below.

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- At the end of the mission I get told to warp out. To where?...
Yes I had this question too. Problem is the station is more than 6000 units far away from where Doogi gets disabled. Then it's a long way doing nothing but taking the elysium back to the station. Maybe I can make alpha warp out with it and take him to wherever it goes to. Do you think end-mission after a fade-out SEXP will do? Because I just learned how to do a fade-out. I'll rethink of that too.

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- If you blow the transport away, you fail the mission and get complained at that you were told to scan it. No you weren't....
Yes you were, but you didn't, did you? And if you didn't then you're exactly where I wanted you to be. How many MANY missions are set up as to kill the fighters and bombers before doing anything else? This time you had to let the job be done by your wingmen and assume the boring part. Ok let's be Alpha2 again will you? This is a daily patrol, your daily job is such a thing as nothing unusual ever happens and this patrol is nothing different. So you get bored, you ARE bored. So when the red dots appear on your sensors then you rush at them and get the kills, and then you wait for the fun part. But it's not anymore. And then it's boring again, as usual. But you had the choice! And that's what my future campaign is all about. You have the choice to play the game as usual or notice the little sentence that will make your day a different day. You have the chance to take the road to fulfill your dream (Alpha2 wants to be a great pilot, a hero but this is still not happening) or just kill the transport and get back home, and be just another GTA pilot. I gave you choice, you want to kill the transport? Then so be it. That's why the mission is still a success after you destroyed Doogi. But if I put a directive there then there's no choice anymore, no free will, no educated guesses, just orders staring at you from the left part of your HUD.
And if you don't feel that way then I failed. The thing is this mission will not be the first one, it will be in the middle of the first part of the story, closer to the starting point. So there's not enough info given in the command briefing. But there's more in the preceding command briefings but they're not finished yet. (yes you can call me weird because I didn't start my campaign with it's first mission). There's this thing you people call 'willful suspension of disbelief' which is a very clever word for what we just call 'immersion' in french (not english immersion, don't get fooled!). I think I'll have to work more on this. I wonder if you see my point now. Does it make any more sense to you? If not then I failed more!

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...Well done for spotting you need a fail briefing...
Thank you so much, this means a lot to me. I learned about these details because I really want my missions to be played.

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- The setting seems a bit wrong....
Well I don't really know where my confusion comes from, I have to make a more solid plot (is this the appropriate word?) because I want my story to end during the first era of the great war, anywhere before the lucifer's destruction, maybe just before, maybe just after, but then in the sol part of the newly separated world. mostly because I can't mix both FS1 and FS2 ships. Anyway there WILL be Apollos and unshielded ships. I want these. I just have to go back to do my homework.

Quote
- It's nitpicking but it's something several of us mission designers will notice. The planet has been placed in such a way that although the sun is behind it, it is strongly lit from the front. How? There's no light source to do that!
Yep, corrected. This one was easy and quick to solve!

Quote
- There are quite a few grammatical errors...
I knew I'd had to discuss that sooner or later. My poor english prevents me from ever seeing such errors, and I guess an editor could help me with grammar, but not semantics. Proof is, after rereading entire texts I wrote I still do not see those errors you're pointing me at. I used google for many translations. I'm afraid they last long before I can find a French speaking guy to help me.

Anyway thanks for the feedback, I didn't expected so much from you (or anyone else). Be sure I'll be back but I keep this thread for FREDding issues or questions. I will talk about missions and campaign in the appropriate forum, lastly I saw there's a dedicated one.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Orum'Pur - first mission
Never mind, I'm just so glad you could finally help me to progress. You know, I see by reading the forum that you take time to test several missions we newbies come up with and we say 'this is good, try it!'. I've read every walkthroughs and tutorials you made and part of that gave me wish to do this one mission (and more to come). So please don't ever apologize for doing things other peoples don't.


Thanks for that. Makes me feel it was worth taking the time out to test. :)

Quote
Good lord! So you were so quick at it? It takes me ages to get rid of the escort, that's why I made Delta available as reinforcement, otherwise I can get either the bonus or Radich but not both. I guess I'm not the skilled pilot my mom thought I could once be :lol:
Ok I'll see to it that there's a bit more excitement on this part of the mission then.

To be fair I was using mouse so I was playing on easy since I prefer joystick. But something needs to happen in the last part of the mission.

Quote
Yes I had this question too. Problem is the station is more than 6000 units far away from where Doogi gets disabled. Then it's a long way doing nothing but taking the elysium back to the station. Maybe I can make alpha warp out with it and take him to wherever it goes to. Do you think end-mission after a fade-out SEXP will do? Because I just learned how to do a fade-out. I'll rethink of that too.

I would definitely think about a fade out. That would definitely be a good choice.

Quote
Yes you were, but you didn't, did you? And if you didn't then you're exactly where I wanted you to be. How many MANY missions are set up as to kill the fighters and bombers before doing anything else? This time you had to let the job be done by your wingmen and assume the boring part. Ok let's be Alpha2 again will you? This is a daily patrol, your daily job is such a thing as nothing unusual ever happens and this patrol is nothing different. So you get bored, you ARE bored. So when the red dots appear on your sensors then you rush at them and get the kills, and then you wait for the fun part. But it's not anymore. And then it's boring again, as usual. But you had the choice! And that's what my future campaign is all about. You have the choice to play the game as usual or notice the little sentence that will make your day a different day. You have the chance to take the road to fulfill your dream (Alpha2 wants to be a great pilot, a hero but this is still not happening) or just kill the transport and get back home, and be just another GTA pilot. I gave you choice, you want to kill the transport? Then so be it. That's why the mission is still a success after you destroyed Doogi. But if I put a directive there then there's no choice anymore, no free will, no educated guesses, just orders staring at you from the left part of your HUD.
And if you don't feel that way then I failed. The thing is this mission will not be the first one, it will be in the middle of the first part of the story, closer to the starting point. So there's not enough info given in the command briefing. But there's more in the preceding command briefings but they're not finished yet. (yes you can call me weird because I didn't start my campaign with it's first mission). There's this thing you people call 'willful suspension of disbelief' which is a very clever word for what we just call 'immersion' in french (not english immersion, don't get fooled!). I think I'll have to work more on this. I wonder if you see my point now. Does it make any more sense to you? If not then I failed more!

I see what you're going for, but there is no message actually sent telling you to scan the transport. I don't mind it being implied, but if it flat out tells you that it happened, it should have happened.

Quote
I knew I'd had to discuss that sooner or later. My poor english prevents me from ever seeing such errors, and I guess an editor could help me with grammar, but not semantics. Proof is, after rereading entire texts I wrote I still do not see those errors you're pointing me at. I used google for many translations. I'm afraid they last long before I can find a French speaking guy to help me.

Don't worry too much about grammar at this point, the campaign may change in ways you can't possibly see at this point. Just make sure you deal with it before release.
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Offline Jackho

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Re: Orum'Pur - first campaign
Can I use retail stuff in my missions? I'm thinking mostly of briefing animation scenes and some backgrounds.
Maybe I could create some of my own, but I obviously lack knowledge, will power and good software for that. Besides, why not use the huge amount of stuff already existing as a library and put credits where it's due (of course) ?
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Orum'Pur - first campaign
You definitely can and should use that stuff unless you can make your own replacements.

As long as it fits the mission of course.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Re: Orum'Pur - first campaign
kaja already touched on this, but the mission would benefit greatly from proofreading. I get the sense that English isn't your first language, so I'll lay off on nitpicking every bit of grammar or odd wording.

Initial weapons are a Flail and a Disrupter...? That can't be right. Speaking of: The GTVA's still issuing ML-16s? Are we in some kinda AU, or is this just an inconsistency?

I spawned with initial velocity 0, forcing me to scramble a bit to catch up with the rest of Alpha wing.

Alphas 3 and 4 have callsigns, but 1 doesn't.

Alpha wing VERY visibly has impossible reaction time when Rama wing arrives.

Eesh, I keep forgetting how much freighter turrets hurt. Hey, I can edit my loadout - what happens if I don't bring along a Disruptor? There's no mention that I'll need it.

Alpha 4 uses a male avatar in the initial dialogue, but has a female persona.

What's going on with the names? The Ma'at's alt-name is odd, but plausible as some well-known variant... but the capture craft has its name and class name backward for some reason?

Command just wasted a perfectly good hauler (and, possibly, evidence a prosecuting attorney could have used).

I can issue orders to the capture craft, including depart orders. Oh, and the Posideon and Amazon Advanced(?) near the station, which don't appear to have names.

Long wait while the Elysium waypoints... towards a jump node for some reason... with nothing going on. Time-compressing.

Eesh, the beer line is forced as all heck.

Hm, bringing this notorious prisoner back is only a secondary objective? The weird RTB has already been touched upon, but I'd like to echo it - frankly, I thought I was following the capture ship through the jump node.



Overall, I'm going to agree with karajorma on this one. It's a promising start - nothing too fancy, but with a little polish (and proofreading!) it could be a fine starting mission.

 

Offline Jackho

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Re: Orum'Pur - first campaign
 :p

I feel like I was unmasked here. Indeed English definitely isn't my first language. I'll do my best, but it's not something I can do much about.
This is where one can see this mission was my first one ever, there are lots of details I did forget about, like those inconsistencies you're pointing at, how to use ships' names and Alt-names, placements, timings, personas (what difference is there between persona and avatar?) etc...

As soon as I'm back home I will take care of all those before I include this mission in my new campaign - don't know why, I hate saying "my" when speaking about the campaign I'm doing, it's not "my", it's the result of work from countless peoples from the community, and it will be yours when it comes to public, well I hope so -  but sorry, don't count on me for giving it a better spelled English! You'd be very disappointed.

And also, what is AU?

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Eesh, the beer line is forced as all heck.
Would you mind elaborating please?

Thank you for your feedback, I need them.
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Re: Orum'Pur - first campaign
AU = Alternate Universe
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.