Author Topic: Neo-Terra Victorious will remain here on HLP!  (Read 13573 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Well, Mobius, if you can do what you're promising to do here with regards to minimizing disruption, that'd be great. I appreciate your efforts and your consideration in that respect. (I'm saying this without my mod hat on - I don't speak for Kara and Goob and Fury and all of them!)

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Personally I can't see how the situation on GW is likely to be any different. If you can't act mature enough to not cause a problem here, I doubt you'll be able to do it there either.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Mobius, why don't you try sectorgame, if you want NTV moved so much?

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
I simply did not know that the admins were unaware of the change in hierarchies
The admins can read the internal.  And I was present during the change in leadership.  There's a difference between delegating project responsibilities and abdicating to somebody else.  Unless Galemp makes it explicit that he's resigning (and he hasn't so far), he's still the project leader, even if you handle most of the day-to-day stuff.

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thought that I proposed the move without asking Galemp first
Even if we accept your argument that you are the project leader, it's very poor form to make that sort of decision unilaterally.  You should, at the very least, open an internal thread poll for the project members (including Galemp) to comment on.  You didn't and still haven't.

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That's why I asked the admins to remove my moderation powers both here and on the FSCRP forum
Don't try to rewrite history.  Your moderation powers were removed as a consequence of your being monkeyed, not based on any request of yours.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 01:28:45 pm by Goober5000 »

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
It's not a question of whether or not the project leaders want to move it, it's a question of how willing the website administrators are to host you.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Personally I can't see how the situation on GW is likely to be any different. If you can't act mature enough to not cause a problem here, I doubt you'll be able to do it there either.

Sorry, but I think you're pretending to know me and guessing how things are going to be like. No offense, but I have this impression.

I acknowledged and expressed my idiocy/disruptiveness on the forums, but (no offense to anyone) I also have to say that many accidents that involved me were caused by wrong interpretations of my own actions. You personally considered this as an attempt to impose a rule even it wasn't. This thread has been considered as a way to show grudge towards HLP's administrationship even if it's not showing grudge of any sort. I could go ahead and specify other situations in which people did not get what I was up to. Useless to say that no one is responsible for those misunderstandings: they occurred and no one is to be blamed for that. Yet still, attempts to define me as a total disruptor are not going have my approval as a person - I caused problems, but I know for sure that I'm not as bad as someone is pretending me to be. There are things that go well beyond forum hiearchies, like personal respect.

Since there's enough evidence to prove that no one here can read other people's mind, I find it hard to anticipate what the consequences of NTV's move will be like. No offense, but that's what I think.


Mobius, why don't you try sectorgame, if you want NTV moved so much?

I have seriously considered Sectorgame (and the administrators know that perfectly because I specified my intention on the PM), so I'd like to wait for MatthewPapa's opinion on the whole deal before asking Hunter. I might even try to contact Swantz about possible hosting on FSMods (there already are 3 projects hosted there).

In any case, I don't want NTV to remain here on HLP.


The admins can read the internal.  And I was present during the change in leadership.  There's a difference between delegating project responsibilities and abdicating to somebody else.  Unless Galemp makes it explicit that he's resigning (and he hasn't so far), he's still the project leader, even if you handle most of the day-to-day stuff.

No, you weren't present when Galemp expressed his will. The event occurred during a discussion on IM and unless Galemp has given you the log of that convo (which is unlikely, there was no reason to do that) there's no way for you to know what happened back then.

Even if we accept your argument that you are the project leader, it's very poor form to make that sort of decision unilaterally.  You should, at the very least, open a thread poll for the project members (including Galemp) to comment on.  You didn't and still haven't.

I showed my personal intentions via PM, which is IMO a reliable way to manage things. The fact that I haven't posted anything you could read doesn't necessarily mean that I came out with the idea of moving away without informing the others first.

The rest of the team understood my reasons and accepted my proposal. In case of move, Galemp will be invited to come with us as a full member partecipating to the project. I surely don't want to kick him out, and he somewhat has to accept the fact that the rest of the team is moving from HLP.


Don't try to rewrite history.  Your moderation powers were removed as a consequence of your being monkeyed, not based on any request of yours.

Sorry, I did not know that and no one before you informed me about the true reasons behind the removal of my moderation powers.

In any case, I did express my will of having my mod powers removed before noticing that they were gone. This means that the moral validity of my request stands, as I didn't intend to ask for something which was already done at the time of writing.


It's not a question of whether or not the project leaders want to move it, it's a question of how willing the website administrators are to host you.

Giving the content of the replies I got, the discussion is based on supposed invalidity of my request. All team members except one (who hasn't denied the proposal - he hasn't responded yet) approved my proposal so it's only a matter of time before Galemp reckognizes that and expresses his own approval... the team needs to act as a whole, and even if I'm not 100% sure that Galemp will accept I trust him well enough to hope that he'll be on my side.

I hope that the new host will be Game-Warden. Otherwise, I'll try with Sectorgame or FSMods. If things don't proceed as planned, I know a private forum which will work fine to handle development. No matter of the new host, NTV will simply get away from HLP.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Giving from the comments, the discussion is based on supposed invalidity of my request. All team members except one (who hasn't denied the proposal - he hasn't responded yet) approved my proposal so it's only a matter of time before Galemp reckognizes that and expresses his own approval... the team needs to act as a whole, and even if I'm not 100% sure that Galemp will accept I trust him well enough to hope that he'll be on my side.

I hope that the new host will be Game-Warden. Otherwise, I'll try with Sectorgame or FSMods. If things don't proceed as planned, I know a private forum which will work fine to handle development. No matter of the new host, NTV will simply get away from HLP.

I don't see any reason why they'd doubt the legitimacy of your request. If Galemp didn't authorize or back the move I'm very sure he would have responded by now. It's not like he'd let this go unnoticed if he was against it.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Of course.

I don't want to play things by the numbers, but even if he doesn't agree with me he'll be alone in doing that. This shouldn't even be a problem because I don't understand why he wouldn't accept - as I said, I trust him.

It's the progress of the project that counts. Even if NTV will not be "officially" moved, its progress will not continue here. Simple as it sounds.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Of course.

I don't want to play things by the numbers, but even if he doesn't agree with me he'll be alone in doing that

I guess this is the reason they're refusing your request...

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
I don't think it's a problem. I wholeheartedly trust Galemp and expect him to be with the rest of the team.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Ok, this is not the best way to sort things out.

I have been thinking about the issue for a couple of hours and came to the conclusion that I need to talk with Galemp via IM ASAP. I don't exclude that I may reconsider my opinion on the matter, but there are many things he needs to know about the recent events.

 

Offline Rodo

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Good to see you think like that Mobius, we know you are a crazy folk but we also know that there's got to be someone else on the other side as well to generate a conflict.

Personally I think it would be best if you just forget about everything, take the smart choice (not like Derek) and just leave the issues behind.
FS community is quite small as it is and we don't need this kind of issues around, it will just hurt the project and the community as a hole.

Hope you can work the problems out with whoever is on the other side in the near future  :)

el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
So it turns out the reason Galemp hasn't responded on the boards is that he's on vacation.  But he did respond to me via email.  He asked me to quote him on this:
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His role on NTV is as a custodian, until he proves himself a capable project manager and having leadership qualities.

It seems clear that Galemp is in agreement with the rest of the HLP management staff.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Sorry, but I think you're pretending to know me and guessing how things are going to be like. No offense, but I have this impression.

Guess what, that's actually my job as admin on GW. In order for me to consider applications for hosted projects on GW I have to look both at the project AND the staff. I don't have the ability to see into the future so I have to judge what your actions on GW will be like based on your actions both there and on HLP. And based on them I see no reason why GW should host a project belonging to such an obvious troublemaker.

Furthermore the fact that instead of sorting out your problems on HLP you've decided to simply drag the entire project away from this board regardless of whether or not it is good for the project makes me dubious as to whether you'll do a good job with the project. You can claim that this is a HLP specific problem all you like but I'm dubious of that too. I don't see any signs that you're acting any differently on GW and given that the reason you got thrown out of the Diaspora forum was due to you insisting on publicly airing your grievances over a GW matter on HLP, I see little reason to believe you won't air your HLP grievances out on GW too. 

Finally, you are massively overcommitted. I don't believe you'd have time for NTV and the last thing GW needs is another moribund project. I probably wouldn't have accepted an application from anyone as busy as you are.

Yes, that's all in my judgement but my job as an admin of GW is to use that judgement and act for the good of the site.

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I acknowledged and expressed my idiocy/disruptiveness on the forums, but (no offense to anyone) I also have to say that many accidents that involved me were caused by wrong interpretations of my own actions. You personally considered this as an attempt to impose a rule even it wasn't.

Yes it was. This entire problem has been caused by you attempting to order things around when you had no authority to do so. You've made comments about FSCRP moving away from HLP even though that isn't your project, You've made an application to move this project without consulting Galemp, you've insisted repeatedly that everyone follow your particular way of working on the wiki even when others have refused.

And that's before we get to the fact that you were thrown out of the Diaspora forum for telling us when we should have gone public, why we should censor our users when they aren't talking directly about the game and how we should have handled our PR. Not suggesting, telling us we did it wrong and how your way is better, even though it actually showed quite breathtaking ignorance of the project.

So feel free to say that you are being maligned but it's simply not true. No one had this problem with you until recently, you managed to be a fairly reasonable member of the community for years until you decided to get up everyone's nose with a bunch of ridiculous affectations and a failed attempt to place yourself in charge of the entire board.

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Since there's enough evidence to prove that no one here can read other people's mind, I find it hard to anticipate what the consequences of NTV's move will be like. No offense, but that's what I think.

That's the point really. No one can anticipate. So we just have to judge you on your previous actions. These include screwing over your reputation on HLP, getting yourself banned from nearly all the public areas and then attempting to drag not one but two projects away from the board they have been hosted on for several years simply because you don't feel like staying here.

Yeah, I'm sure we can trust you to be a model project lead on GW. I'm sure we can trust you to put your project above your own petty desires.  :rolleyes:
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Spicious

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
This thread delivers. :yes:
The moving to support GW story failing to last even a day was a bit disappointing though.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
"Aww man that hurts."

"It's supposed to hurt, it's an asskicking!"
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
It's the progress of the project that counts. Even if NTV will not be "officially" moved, its progress will not continue here. Simple as it sounds.

Now to actually contribute something to the discussion, such as it is.

Let me get this straight.

You are essentially stating you have conducted a hostile takeover of the project, and if the project leader's wishes otherwise, **** him.

And you are threatening to shut down a project. No bull****, straight up, you are threatening to destroy NTV. Nevermind it's a threat you can't possibly fulfil. Nevermind if you tried you would destroy your standing in this community for all time.

You have just crossed the Rubicon. Burned your bridges. There is no going back. You have declared yourself an enemy of the community.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Everyone, stop speaking b******t and shut up. If you can't help with anything or fix the problem, and just want to bash/flame Mobius then don't post. You're only getting the situation further f***ed up, just cause you want to satisfy your egos.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
Then tell me what he meant by that statement. Tell me what he meant to say "even if it's not officially moved, its progress will not continue here". Tell me why he spoke unilaterally, when he is not capable of consulting Galemp on the subject.

Tell me why I'm wrong.

Or get the hell out of this discussion.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Neo-Terra Victorious is (not) moving to Game-Warden!
ShadowGorrath, hush.

NGTM-1R, I agree that Mobius did cross a line with this decision, but he's been contrite, reasonable, and productive in personal discussions lately, and I'm hopeful that things can get back to normal. There was a time when he didn't try to stick his fingers into every pie on HLP and I think that time might be able to come again. So let's give him a shot.

In the meantime the admins seem to be handling the pwnage pretty well and GalEmp has made it clear that Mobius is not project leader of NTV and cannot move it away from HLP.