Author Topic: MechWarrior Online  (Read 153096 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Fine, fine, that's all beside the point (or completely in agreement with my point.)

My comment was a rebuttal to Trashman's bizarre assertion that something should immediately explode when it falls over. He apparently subscribes to the same school of thought that makes cars explode during movie chase scenes.

Explode? No, I didn't say that. I said that classic mech (bird legs, guns for arms) with it's legs blown off WILL fall down (no way in hell it can retain balance) and will get even more damage from the fall itself. It becomes a crippled, practicly unmoving target.

Do I have to explain it in details? Fine. See this image:
http://www.mektek.net/forums/uploads/post-29-1114206378.jpg

Let's take the MadCat/Timberwolf, since it's the poster child for the whole Battletech series. What happens when it's leg gets blown off by a missile or something? It topples over to it's side. which means all the lovely 70 tons end up crashing right on that flimsy little arm. It would be a miracle if the arm doesn't snap from that. Assuming it doesn't snap, Do you think it can lift that weight? Getting a mech in a sitting position is not easy in a situation like this (and that's an understatement). Not that you need to move it a sitting position. As long as the front of the mech is roughly facing the enemy, you should be able to train a functioning weapon towards him (more or less).
Mechs with real arms would be better at this than HERCs, but it's still a slow and ponderous process.

You're a big, damaged, trashing target - leaving the mech/HERC is a smarter move than continuing to fight in that case.

Fluff, manual and game performance matter little.
I could make a mech game and be lazy in coding, and make it so that damaged parts just become invisible instead of blowing off, and thus if you blow both legs off my mech, it will "float/hover" (since it's legs are still there, just invisible...destroyed). Does that mean that my mech design is super-awesome and loosing both legs doesn't hinder it's performance at all? Of course not.


Well, sure, I agree with all that, but I'm no longer clear on what your point is. Mechs do fall over and take damage when they get a leg blown off. They can still remain mildly mobile (crawling to change facing, using arm and torso-mounted weapons), just like an MBT with a cracked track.

The damage the Mad Cat takes when it falls is fairly minor, comparable to an ER Medium Laser shot.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Fluff, manual and game performance matter little.

And thus you prove you have no argument or point at all; you're not willing to argue on the merits of either universe, only what you make up.
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Offline Commander Zane

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Well, sure, I agree with all that, but I'm no longer clear on what your point is. Mechs do fall over and take damage when they get a leg blown off. They can still remain mildly mobile (crawling to change facing, using arm and torso-mounted weapons), just like an MBT with a cracked track.

The damage the Mad Cat takes when it falls is fairly minor, comparable to an ER Medium Laser shot.
I think he's referring to the falling damage on a realistic scale, the PPC mounts on the Mad Cat do have some rather thin support, if it fell on its side those struts would end up bending or simply breaking off.
Possibly. :P

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
They're made of myomer, ferro-fibrous, and endo-steel. We have no idea how light, strong, and resilient that material is, except for 'very'.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?

Well, sure, I agree with all that, but I'm no longer clear on what your point is. Mechs do fall over and take damage when they get a leg blown off. They can still remain mildly mobile (crawling to change facing, using arm and torso-mounted weapons), just like an MBT with a cracked track.

My point is that a tank with a damaged track is better off then a mech without a leg (since it can still turn it's turret just as fast). A mech without a leg is a deathtrap since it's practicly immobile and it's response and aquisition time is drasticly reduced.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Sure, that's a definite disadvantage, unless you're piloting a quad. Legging is the best anti-'Mech tactic from an infantry or armor standpoint.

But the legs come with huge mobility advantages of their own when undamaged, so it's a tradeoff.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Also:

Fluff, manual and game performance matter little.

And thus you prove you have no argument or point at all; you're not willing to argue on the merits of either universe, only what you make up.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
But the legs come with huge mobility advantages of their own when undamaged, so it's a tradeoff.

Actually, that's highly debatable. But I best not get into that.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Actually, that's highly debatable. But I best not get into that.

It's not debateable in BattleTech.  There is a reason the 'Mech is the king of the battlefield in that continuity.

 

Offline Liberator

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
The only reason we dont' have walking tanks and stuff in the real world is our materials science is lagging way behind our engineering design.  The big deal right now is to develop a lightweight composite that has the same strength as steel, when they should be looking for alloys that that the same weight as steel and 10x the tensile strength and toughness.  Then we can build some proper space faring vessels that aren't tin foil on a frame of toothpicks.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
In other words, we're waiting for our very own applied phlebotinum  :drevil:

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
13 pages of discussion  :eek2: ?

Mechs are much more popular than I ever thought. Or then we have a couple of very enthusiastic persons filling all the 10 pages.

Mechwarrior and Freespace are very similar.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
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Offline Scotty

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
There is also a fair bit of just a few of us arguing over the most minute details.

Like whether a 'Mech should explode if it falls over.

 

Offline Mad Bomber

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
The big deal right now is to develop a lightweight composite that has the same strength as steel, when they should be looking for alloys that that the same weight as steel and 10x the tensile strength and toughness.  Then we can build some proper space faring vessels that aren't tin foil on a frame of toothpicks.

Hear, hear!
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
The only reason we dont' have walking tanks and stuff in the real world is our materials science is lagging way behind our engineering design.  The big deal right now is to develop a lightweight composite that has the same strength as steel, when they should be looking for alloys that that the same weight as steel and 10x the tensile strength and toughness.  Then we can build some proper space faring vessels that aren't tin foil on a frame of toothpicks.


That and the fact that it wouldn't do anything better then an MBT and would be a big ass target for two Jabronis and a FGM-148.
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Offline Liberator

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Ima throw into this argument with my favorite mech:

The Awesome

Lightly customized replacing one ER-PPC with a pair of Large Lasers to smooth out the range profile.  Prolly get toasted by a more ballistic ship tho.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Actually, that's highly debatable. But I best not get into that.

It's not debateable in BattleTech.  There is a reason the 'Mech is the king of the battlefield in that continuity.

And again, I'm talking about design reality, not informed ability. If game/novel/movie X tells me that Z is the greatest sword in the universe, and yet  I see that it's design is logicly abysmal, then it's impossibly for me to take that seriously.

Reality check: Tanks are highly mobile. Take a look at abrams. It's fast, can cross over all kinds of terrain, has a low profile. It also has a very low surface pressure for it's weight and size, meaning it can cross terrains a mech would have big trouble with.


But I digress.
My whole point was that from a logical standpoint, mechs are less reliable than tanks.
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Offline Polpolion

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Trashman, you've never done push ups or stood on one foot, have you?

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
"BigDog is funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency in the hopes that it will be able to serve as a robotic pack mule to accompany soldiers in terrain too rough for conventional vehicles. Instead of wheels or treads, BigDog uses four legs for movement, allowing it to move across surfaces that would defeat wheels"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog

I'm pretty sure that means that tanks can't go everywhere.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: New MechWarrior Game?
This topic is in seriuous danger of getting lockage. Divergent arguements are best handled via PM before they escalate.
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