[castor]

This is a serious question and issue in my mind.  I do not want to run a MAC OS or Linux but I want access to the same free software as they have access to --- particularly since it was originally designed for Windows.  Respectful comments are appreciated. 

Sites offering it are at fault. The solution can hardly be to spread that fault further (here).

[Mura]

Want facts?
FACT: Downloading licensed software without paying is illegal and called piracy
FACT: FS2 is licensed software, which downloading it makes it illegal, without regards if you downloaded it for linux or mac or DOS, or any OS you may want, it's still illegal.
FACT: Distribution of licensed software without the permission of the maker is still illegal, so what those circles are doing is illegal, and still, not hlp's business.
FACT: It was never "Free" to download Freespace2 as it has been told many times already.
FACT: GoG offers a way to buy this out-of-print game for a very reasonable price, and it's perfectly legal, unlike some sites that offer you a download for a fee without ever paying the makers of the game.

As i see it, you are proposing a change with the illegal means of obtaining freespace2 files to not restrict window users, but hlp has no control over this, you may want to propose this to whoever is offering those files, but i still think this is going no where ñ.ñ;;

[Spoon]

Guys Guys, I think he's trying to obtain the license to make *GASP*

FREESPACE 3!

Dun dun

Duuuuuuuuuuuuun

[karajorma]

As for the proposition that my posts seem rude to you, Karajorma.  Look again, please.  I advance a proposition and quickly found myself the target of numerous personal insults --- only to be chided for flaming when I defended myself in response - and threatened with a ban for doing so.  Someone had the temerity to disagree with you, Karajorma, and you took off on a diatribe in defense of your attack on me -- concluding that I was rude (and making it clear that disagreement with you was not something that you appreciated).

You don't defend yourself on this board by flaming. If you have an issue with someone's post you click the report post button.

People can disagree with me all they like but making comments about The E's intelligence is a clear flame and I've pretty much told every single board member who has made similar comments in the past about any member that they are looking at a ban if they keep doing it.

In fact the only time I've let is slide is when people go after Derek Smart (who technically is a member of HLP! )

[Ziame]

Guys Guys, I think he's trying to obtain the license to make *GASP*

FREESPACE 3!

Dun dun

Duuuuuuuuuuuuun

Is he the Derek Smart alpha male?

[karajorma]

*bans Ziame for flaming*

I didn't say I'd keep letting it slide, did I?

[Stingray2000]

Please accept the fact that I do not want an illegal copy of the game.  I want to hear from people who have followed this mater closely for years (I have not) as to what has transpired and WHY this title remains protected intellectual property.  My reasons are my own, but they have nothing to do with obtaining the title illegally nor in having this site take any position, or to assist in any effort.

I accept your correction, Karajorma, I went too far.  I apologize to The E - and i do not believe that any other coment(s) were at issue.

[The E]

The simple answer is, it isn't Freeware, because Interplay hasn't made it Freeware. They hold the copyright to all FS2 intellectual property. Until Interplay releases it into the public domain, it is still a copyrighted product, and Interplay is the only one who can legally distribute it or give licenses for distribution to other companies or individuals.
If someone distributes it without a license, they can be served with a DMCA notice and sued for copyright violation. Obviously, HLP wishes to avoid that.

[karajorma]

Please accept the fact that I do not want an illegal copy of the game.  I want to hear from people who have followed this mater closely for years (I have not) as to what has transpired and WHY this title remains protected intellectual property.  My reasons are my own, but they have nothing to do with obtaining the title illegally nor in having this site take any position, or to assist in any effort.

I accept your correction, Karajorma, I went too far.  I apologize to The E - and i do not believe that any other coment(s) were at issue.

Okay, so what other issues did you have then? Cause I think you should be able to grasp our take on the issue from the other posts.

[General Battuta]

The simple answer is, it isn't Freeware, because Interplay hasn't made it Freeware. They hold the copyright to all FS2 intellectual property. Until Interplay releases it into the public domain, it is still a copyrighted product, and Interplay is the only one who can legally distribute it or give licenses for distribution to other companies or individuals.
If someone distributes it without a license, they can be served with a DMCA notice and sued for copyright violation. Obviously, HLP wishes to avoid that.

This is correct.

Free distribution of FS2 is, and always has been, completely illegal (except possibly under the 'friends clause' of the initial EULA, which was later removed legally by the rights-holders.) Even while we were distributing it for free we were aware that it was technically illegal but assumed that it had been abandoned.

[stuart133]

*bans Ziame for flaming*

I didn't say I'd keep letting it slide, did I?

You didn't actually ban him did you??

The thing is it seems Stingray that you think the game should be made freeware. Why? Interplay need every cent they can get and the game is selling well on Gog.com so there is no reason for them to make this game free.
I think if I were on a different board I would now get a slew of posts about Derek Smart along the lines of "OMGZ DEREK SMART r00ls. HE RELEASES HIS GAMES AS FREEWARE!!!!" but I really can't see that happening here. 

[Ziame]

I ain't banned. This discussion is getting ridiculous. FreeSpace2 never was freeware nor shall it be for time being.

[stuart133]

Yeah, it will only become freeware if FS3 comes out (I.E. Never)
Also got to be careful here, I nearly typed "someone should lock this" but then I realised that someone would then lock my account which would be bad. 

[Mongoose]

Yeah, it will only become freeware if FS3 comes out (I.E. Never)

And probably not even then.  Any number of games that receive sequels years after the fact haven't seen their predecessors released as freeware.

Also got to be careful here, I nearly typed "someone should lock this" but then I realised that someone would then lock my account which would be bad. 

Smart move.

What other sites do is, quite frankly, absolutely none of our business. Freespace can be legally downloaded from Good Old Games. They paid Interplay for the right to do that. If other websites want to break the law and offer the game for free that is up to them. We do not want to break the law as there is a legal alternative. If I remember correctly GameTap also made a similar deal with Interplay but due to the the fact that their version of the game couldn't be modded it wasn't of much interest to us.

Actually, GameTap is in the process of implementing a new encryption scheme known as Yummy that will allow for third-party mods to be used, as well as making games compatible with 64-bit systems.  It's going to take some time for them to re-encrypt their back catalog (though I put in a good word for FS2 in a comment on their blog), and there's no guarantee that SCP builds will play completely nice with their version even when it is re-encrypted, but I'm keeping an eye on it.

[Goober5000]

How can you justify your avid policing of the ranks of people wishing to facilitate the download of FS2 for users of a windows based PC when you seemingly do absolutely nothing to interdict the numerous sites on the internet that offer the full version of FS2, for free, to Mac and Linux OS users.

This may come as a surprise to you, but HLP does not control the Internet.

But we're flattered you think we do.   After all, perception is 9/10ths of reality.  This means we are close to achieving the next step in The Plan^TM.


...Anyway, I don't really have anything to add here that karajorma or Battuta haven't already said.  Though I will affirm that falsely accusing a member of engaging in an ad-hominem attack, followed by actually making an ad-hominem attack, seasoned with condescension and trolling, could certainly justify a potential ban.  Things seem to have calmed down though, so let's keep them that way.

[Stingray2000]

In response to Karajorma's inquiry as to what further information I was looking for, I can start by saying what I am not looking for - opinions.  Based on my limited factual understanding of this matter, it appears that FS2 has been distributed under the terms of more than one EULA.  The original EULA did not appear to strictly ban sharing the software non-commercially.  A subsequent EULA amended this provision (thus giving credence to the proposition that those who distributed the game to others relying on this language were not taking an unreasonable position).  I am aware of 2 EULA's.  Are there more?  Additionally, I am aware that GOG contacted this site regarding cessation f assistance in distributing FS2 freely.  However, as has been pointed out, the license holder is Interplay and I would ask if anyone is aware of Interplay contacting this site (or any other) regarding distribution of FS2.  As a corollary, is anyone aware if Interplay, or any party involved in its reorganization, have taken the position that later EULA's supercede the EULA distributed to a person who bought the game lawfully during its distribution in and around 1999?   

[The E]

Both the current FS2 EULA and the old one have this clause:

Any permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be withdrawn by Interplay Productions at any time. All rights not expressly granted are reserved.

That basically means that, no matter which EULA you agreed to, the latest released version is the one that takes precedence. And since the second one does not allow for sharing, well, that's that. There are no other EULAs for FS2. Interplay has never indicated that that EULA or its interpretation was altered.

This has been pointed out in this thread for some time now, and I am starting to wonder why you keep asking us, when the sensible thing to do would be to contact Interplay and ask them for their position on the matter.

[General Battuta]

In response to Karajorma's inquiry as to what further information I was looking for, I can start by saying what I am not looking for - opinions.  Based on my limited factual understanding of this matter, it appears that FS2 has been distributed under the terms of more than one EULA.  The original EULA did not appear to strictly ban sharing the software non-commercially.  A subsequent EULA amended this provision (thus giving credence to the proposition that those who distributed the game to others relying on this language were not taking an unreasonable position).

As with most EULAs, the original EULA contained a passage indicating that it could be modified at any time. It was modified. There is only one EULA, it's just been 'patched'. 

I am aware of 2 EULA's.  Are there more?

See above. There is only one EULA. 

Additionally, I am aware that GOG contacted this site regarding cessation f assistance in distributing FS2 freely.

Did it? I've never been clear on this point. I was under the impression that HLP decided to take retail files down itself. 

However, as has been pointed out, the license holder is Interplay and I would ask if anyone is aware of Interplay contacting this site (or any other) regarding distribution of FS2.

Actually, GoG has Interplay's legal permission for distribution, so it has as much legal right to control distribution as Interplay.

As a corollary, is anyone aware if Interplay, or any party involved in its reorganization, have taken the position that later EULA's supercede the EULA distributed to a person who bought the game lawfully during its distribution in and around 1999?   

There are no later EULAs, only amendments to the original. The EULA can be lawfully amended at any time, probably without notice, according to the terms of the 1999 EULA that everyone agreed to. If you played FS2, you gave Interplay permission to remove the 'friends clause' whenever they wanted, and they later elected to.

[The E]

Additionally, I am aware that GOG contacted this site regarding cessation f assistance in distributing FS2 freely.

Did it? I've never been clear on this point. I was under the impression that HLP decided to take retail files down itself. 

If something like that happened, it wasn't mentioned in public. There was a very short discussion about it, that basically amounted to everyone saying "Yeah, take it down, it's not needed anymore".

[QuantumDelta]

As mentioned above, the only "current" EULA that would have any legal weight is the one that's contained by GoG's install.

Which should be the one that comes with patch 1.2 (the updated EULA that says you can't share it).

That said the expressed legal power of an EULA isn't that impressive, though FS2s would probably be considered legal and binding, since it's not as unreasonable as some of the more recent expeditions into DRMesque turf have discovered.