[Scotty]

He's not a typical troll, at least.  Except for the all caps, he has good grammar.

[Blue Lion]

Plus I thought we didn't really want the Olympics since they're bad.

[Stormkeeper]

And besides, you already have David Haselhoff.

[Bobboau]

anything that is good is bad if your political enemies are in power.

and while we are on the subject of Japan, it's my favorite foreign country, they are one of the most racist modern nations, yet at the same time, they are trying their hardest to improve themselves. I love how they came defeated out of the second world war, a war where they committed some of the worst acts humanity has known, and became not only a massive economic superpower but also they became a cornerstone of international peace. I mean it's almost as if they managed to learn from their mistakes or something! I love the pride they have in their nation, and I think they earned it. I look forward to our continued friendship and rivalry.
Nippon Banzai !

/*opens rosetta stone and tries to learn to speak Japanese again*/

[General Battuta]

Though it's probably not a popular viewpoint, the way I see it, war is hell, no matter how you try to pretty it up.  That's particularly true when engaged in a total war such as WWII.  You can try to do what you can to mitigate the impact of what you're doing, but in the end, everyone is doing something that sixty years of perspective could potentially label an "atrocity."  As horrific as their effects were, if the firebombings of Tokyo and the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki enabled the war to conclude significantly more swiftly than it would have without taking those actions, then from where I'm sitting, they were the right decision.

That being said, regarding the atomic bomb, I share the opinion of most of the physicists who originally worked on the Manhattan Project. Though obtaining such a weapon before Germany was able to do so was crucial, it's something that never should have come into existence in the first place in an ideal world.  We shouldn't possess the ability to destroy ourselves completely.

I agree. Nonetheless, the firebombings and atomic bombings were heinous atrocities.

I do not think there was any better alternative, but - as we all learned from the Mass Effect morality system - 'good' and 'evil' are sometimes two separate meters that fill up independently.

[Kosh]

I mean it's almost as if they managed to learn from their mistakes or something!

No, they didn't. Many of them still can't face up to their country's horrible atrocities. They don't keep much of a military because they aren't allowed to.

but also they became a cornerstone of international peace.

Yes and no. They aren't causing a lot of trouble but there is a large amount of mistrust between them and the rest of Asia, and with good reason.

they are trying their hardest to improve themselves.

Honestly I haven't seen it that much. They still typically see themselves as second to the top, looking down on the rest of the world, excluding the western part of course. It is against Japanese character to change.

[Bobboau]

these are all accurate criticisms. they do tend to gloss over their darker chapters, though in America we don't exactly bring up the fact that the only reason our nation exists is because we genocided a whole native population. so I can understand them not wanting to bring it up, but I can also most definitely sympathize with China and Korea's outrage over this.

but I can't help but feel they are ernistly trying to improve. perhaps I am simply mistaking their sense of thinking they are better for them trying to become better, but then that feeds back into that strong national pride I mentioned as one of the reasons I like them.

[High Max]

^_^

[Bobboau]

well, he lives in China, of course he's going to say bad things about Japan, it's practically the national sport of every nation in that region that isn't Japan on account of Japans historic policy of extensive rape ****ing all of them for resources and fun.

I don't recall him bad mouthing China, ever. I'm fairly sure he hasn't, I mean he isn't in jail for one thing.

[High Max]

^_^

[Bobboau]

I think he's just trying to put what he sees as unwarranted admiration into perspective.

[Stormkeeper]

Yeah. I like Japan enough; anyone who watches a decent amount of anime will have some amount of love for that country. What I dislike are people who automatically assume Japanese made stuff to be superior, and will preach about said superiority to anyone and everyone.

[Kosh]

You know Kosh, for someone who chose to move to that part of the world, you sure say bad things about China and its surrounding areas, including Japan.

I say what deserves to be said, based on the evidence at hand. To do otherwise would be intellectually dishonest.

If you don't like it in that part of the world, why did you move there?

Have you ever thought about the reason why I came here and did NOT go to Japan? One thing that has become clear about China, it will most certainly not become like Japan. Japan made a conscious choice 50 years ago to keep everything the same, that is not the case in China. Japan is stagnate because they chose to be that way, while there is a great deal of change happening in China. That is why I chose it, because of what it will be.

I don't recall him bad mouthing China, ever. I'm fairly sure he hasn't, I mean he isn't in jail for one thing.

I criticize things about China that deserve criticism, like everything else.

Lucky I live in a relatively safe state like Oregon or I would have a reason to feel much more fear.

.......
You're seriously from there? That is creepy.

And there is police corruption here too, Kosh.

Not to the extent that there is in Japan. Last I checked local government in the US wasn't in bed with the mafia.

Police here often can get away with beating people

Evidence please.

I think he's just trying to put what he sees as unwarranted admiration into perspective.

Yes.

What I dislike are people who automatically assume Japanese made stuff to be superior, and will preach about said superiority to anyone and everyone.

Whenever you meet those people just point out the various exploding Sony batteries that have occured off and on over the past decade.

Also, he and I have talked in PMs and stuff and he doesn't seem to like their culture.

Very few things annoy me more than asiaphilia. If Japanese culture is so enlightened then where are all the ground breaking inventions that they have made? The reason Germany has such a high degree of admiration is because they invented so many things. For example, modern education, state funded health care, national pension programs, the car, diesel motors, jets, aspirin, flourescent lamps, cathode ray tubes, amoung many others plus a long list of nobel prizes for physics and chemistry from 1901 to 1939.

[Bobboau]

I criticize things about China that deserve criticism, like everything else.

I couldn't recall anything

so what do you think China is going to be?

[Kosh]

In many ways it will much more closely reflect modern western culture than it will Japanese. It is still hard to say that for sure what it will be, but that is the general trend.

When they talk about "generation gap" in China, usually they are referring to someone who is only about 5 years younger (or older depending on the perspective).

I couldn't recall anything

Nothings been brought up in a while.

[High Max]

^_^

[StarSlayer]

Seems to assume western culture equals the USA.  If I recall correctly from my Western Civilization class the majority of it dealt with Europe.

[Kosh]

If everything is westernized, it would all be pretty much the same.

You forget something, not everyone in western civilizations are the same. Western civilization itself can and does change, while Japanese in general do not. This is why Japan's attempt at being a global power was doomed from the start.

It's not right to alter a cuture to a way you like it.

It is not about the way I like it, it is what is best for them and their people.

You also develop a culture that puts money even before their own spouse. It is sad.

In reality eastern cultures do this to a far far greater extent.

Well Japan has the best robotic tech in the world.

Because they put more effort into it. Interesting how they do this but don't utilize their own people in an efficient manner, but that would require changes that they are not so willing to make.

They also tend to put more effort into making it to the garbage can and keeping their place clean and not being pigs like many people here. A lot of garbage on the ground and I don't even licve in the city.

It is like that in most parts of Asia, Japan and south korea are the exceptions. But I do question their cleanliness given that public urination is a not so rare event in Japan.

It is failry safe compared to living in New York and DC

I will give them credit for that, and it is something that can be assimilated.

[Bobboau]

As much as I like Japan I can see why someone else would not. I like and respect stubbornness. another way of interpreting stubbornness is as kosh has pointed out, an unwillingness to change. To say the Japanese are stubborn, would be simply flat out wrong, to say they are an eternal monument to pure and unwavering stubbornness, would be getting a little closer to the truth. now because I happen to be an individual who considers stubbornness to be a likable personality trait this only enhances my opinion of Japan, but if you are a person who can not stand it, then you are not going to get along with the culture.

now as much as I like the country, and I might want to visit, I would never want to live there, I know how they think of foreigners, and I know how 'fun' it would be for me, a Gaijin without a family history mapped back to the 12th century, to try to get a job that didn't involve cleaning or food preparation. the very reasons I like them are the same reasons I wouldn't want to live there, odd isn't it?

[Mika]

I think Kosh would be quite qualified to criticize things in China. He, after all, lives there.

My impression from China was also that money is much more important there than it appears to outside.